Comments

blink3times wrote on 3/24/2009, 8:41 PM
8c is supposed to take all avc sources now but...

Sony uses Main profile avchd which has a max bitrate of 17Mb/s and presents easier playback and editing abilities, while Panasonic and Canon use High profile avchd which works to a max of 24Mb/s but is more difficult to playback and edit.
UlfLaursen wrote on 3/24/2009, 11:48 PM
I would get Cineform Neo - it's quite affordable and should work well, you can get a trial first. Only thing is huge outputfiles, so you need a lot of space.

/Ulf
DGates wrote on 3/25/2009, 3:37 AM
Thanks.
tumbleweed7 wrote on 3/25/2009, 8:11 AM
To answer the original question...

I have a Pana SD100, & Vegas 8c, & the files are supported...

The SD100 has a max of 17 Mbps... the HMC, 21 Mbps...

My playback is also somewhat jerky, but I consider that normal, as I'm running it on a dualcore 2.8 Mhz machine....
Brad C. wrote on 3/25/2009, 1:54 PM
I'm somewhat in the same ballpark. I'm running 3.0ghz quad, HD2600XT graphics, 3gig of RAM and with Canon High Profile 17Mbps on the timeline w/Magic Bullet I can get decent enough video play through Preview-Auto.
DGates wrote on 3/25/2009, 3:58 PM
I'm wondering if an i7 processor would make much of a difference?
newhope wrote on 3/25/2009, 4:41 PM
I have a Panasonic HMC-152EN (PAL version of the 150) and a HDC-HS9 and I get jerky replay of AVCHD from both in Vegas 8.0c on a Mac Pro Twin Dual Core 3.0GHz

On the same computer running in MacOSX in FCP the AVCHD are converted on import to Apple ProRes 422 and play just fine. The downside is the files grow by about a factor of 10Xs similar to Cineform conversion.

However the import process converts the files to Apple ProRes at faster than realtime speed. Much faster than using Cineform as an after import in Vegas.

It's the main reason I currently edit in FCP because Vegas doesn't perform well with native AVCHD and the conversion time in Cineform takes too long even with dual Zeon CPUs.

New Hope Media
blink3times wrote on 3/25/2009, 5:59 PM
"It's the main reason I currently edit in FCP because Vegas doesn't perform well with native AVCHD"

FCP doesn't work with native avchd.... PERIOD
newhope wrote on 3/25/2009, 7:13 PM
FCP doesn't work with native avchd.... PERIOD

Blink you are persistent with this message aren't you? But in the end what is your point?

I think we are all quite aware that FCP doesn't do AVCHD natively. As I said above it imports and converts AVCHD at the same time to Apple ProRes 422. Which it plays smoothly and allows you to edit without the jerky replay that Vegas gives with AVCHD.

Now the point here isn't whether the resultant is an AVCHD or a Cineform or an Apple ProRes file I am editing.

The point is the ability of the NLE to ingest the files and play the resultant format smoothly and do all that quickly and reliably.

Vegas, as much as I love it, doesn't handle AVCHD successfully in native form. Therefore it matters not one iota whether it is handling native AVCHD because, if it doesn't work smoothly, the process is fairly useless. The conversion via Cineform is painfully slow even on a fast computer and ends up being slower than capturing the footage in real time, and time is money.

FCP on the other hand, as you pointed out, DOESN'T try to edit with the AVCHD files natively. It reads the source directory and allows you to preview and select the AVCHD video, including in and out points, name the files and 'source reel', all the normal logging functions which Vegas doesn't offer for AVCHD, and then import and convert to Apple ProRes 422 in faster than real time.

My end market isn't BluRay so maintaining AVCHD file format isn't on my radar.

When Vegas does do these things well, be the files format native AVCHD or another HD format converted from AVCHD, I'll revisit it.

Until it does I'll stick with an editing program that ACTUALLY WORKS...PERIOD

New Hope Media
blink3times wrote on 3/25/2009, 8:37 PM
"My end market isn't BluRay "

Well I sure hope not because FCP doesn't support that either :)
newhope wrote on 3/25/2009, 11:14 PM
Blink, a word of advice, if you don't have anything to say, say nothing.
Because nothing you've said in your last two posts is relevant to the thread.

Lets not turn this thread into another of your raves about nothing.

Instead try telling us something positive about how Vegas might better handle AVCHD... that's something I do want to hear.
blink3times wrote on 3/26/2009, 3:27 AM
"Because nothing you've said in your last two posts is relevant to the thread."

Nothing I have said??

May I remind you that YOU brought FCP into this. This is a VEGAS board and the OP was asking about avchd in VEGAS. You come onto the SONY VEGAS forums claiming how much better FCP is at a particular job. Did you know that if you did this on other forums like Avid, Pinnacle or Ulead your post would have been removed?

Now.... fcp STINKS at native avchd editing and it also STINKS at blu ray support.... these are simple facts.
blink3times wrote on 3/26/2009, 3:41 AM
"Instead try telling us something positive about how Vegas might better handle AVCHD... that's something I do want to hear.'


I don't have to. This is a SONY VEGAS forum and we're talking about SONY VEGAS.

Now try hard as you can to stick to the topic instead of drumming up some kind of comparative study on a competitive product.
newhope wrote on 3/26/2009, 6:39 AM
Blink as long as Vegas doesn't do the things it pretends it can, and I've owned and used Vegas since before it could edit video, I'll compare it's shortcomings to other competitive products like FCP and ProTools in these forums until SCS actually listens.... don't get me started on OMF, AAF (which doesn't work as it should) and BWF or the lack of them in Vegas

I do the same in the FCP and ProTools (DUC) forums because, if we, as users, don't suggest improvements and point out shortcomings we can't expect the software to improve in the fashion we want.

After all I am a listed beta tester of some of the SCS range of software.

But that isn't the only reason I post or reply on this forum...I also like to pass on some help and experience where I can.

By the way are you actually shooting and editing AVCHD in Vegas?

I don't see an AVCHD camera in your specs. The reason I ask is that I only jumped ship to edit in FCP because of my frustration with Vegas and AVCHD... I was wondering if you'd actually tried to use AVCHD professionally, that is as part of your business, with Vegas?

Hopefully SCS will improve its performance with AVCHD to a point where I want to come back.
This week I had need to revisit a DV project I edited for a client in Vegas a few years ago so I could update some information and it reminded me of how much I like the program... if only it would work as well with AVCHD as it does with DV!!!
blink3times wrote on 3/26/2009, 7:38 AM
"Blink as long as Vegas doesn't do the things it pretends it can, and I've owned and used Vegas since before it could edit video, I'll compare it's shortcomings to other competitive products like FCP and ProTools in these forums until SCS actually listens.."

Well first it's not just Vegas struggling with native avchd editing. All of the nle's that have introduced it are having problems.

Second, Don't get pissed at me when I start pointing out FCP shortcomings... and it has them. YOU put FCP out here on the table... not me. Heck... getting a FCP file back into Vegas... or any other normal pc based nle for that matter becomes a whole new set of head aches all on its own. My opinion... Apple is too bloody cheap and wrapped up in themselves to buy the licensing in order to input/output a normal file. Try outputting a normal ac3 file.

Third... do you REALLY expect some one to go out and spend.... I don't know... what.... 3 or 4 thousand dollars on a mac/FCP setup so they can do realtime conversion instead of spending $129 on neo scene and waiting an extra few minutes for the conversion???

Not too mention the fact that they'll have to start living with the embarrassment of owning a mac :)

Lastly.... please don't try and tell me that I'M the one off topic here.


By the way are you actually shooting and editing AVCHD in Vegas? "

YES
I import MTS file both directly and through cinform depending on how deep I plan on editing... and I output as mpeg2 to Blu ray.... something that FCP STINKS at.
je@on wrote on 3/26/2009, 9:50 AM
I must say, it's gotten so that whenever I see b3x's name on a post I blow right by it. Takes up a lot of space while adding little or nothing to the conversation.
blink3times wrote on 3/26/2009, 11:16 AM
Hey... don't blame me. All I did was point out that FCP doesn't support native avchd editing and I get this hissy fit of anger. How could I possibly be so lousy as to pint out a FCP shortcoming on a Vegas forum?? How dare I? What was i thinking of?
DGates wrote on 3/26/2009, 11:45 AM
"I must say, it's gotten so that whenever I see b3x's name on a post I blow right by it. Takes up a lot of space while adding little or nothing to the conversation."

He's a provoker. Nothing more, nothing less. It's best to ignore him.
blink3times wrote on 3/26/2009, 1:54 PM
"He's a provoker. Nothing more, nothing less. It's best to ignore him.'

Hey... now that's gratitude at its absolute height... or is it depth

Hey... I just noticed.... I'm rolling on the floor laughing here.... You even edited your above thank you post and removed my name from it. The edit was about 20 seconds after your put-down post. Your "thank you blink and ulf" post was posted on the 25th and edited on the 26th at 1:45:30.... your put-down post was entered at 1:45:10 Too funny!

Well... your welcome anyway!
tumbleweed7 wrote on 3/26/2009, 2:42 PM

A quote I like to use at times like this....

"As iron sharpens iron, so does one man sharpen another"

You can ignore blink if you like, but at least he engages you, wether you like what he says, or not...
blink3times wrote on 3/26/2009, 4:17 PM
"but at least he engages you, wether you like what he says, or not..."

If only I could use that for good...... instead of evil :)
Geeno wrote on 3/26/2009, 5:11 PM
Somebody mentioned an i7 cpu. Is it too late in the psing contest to pick back up on that?
i c e wrote on 3/26/2009, 6:22 PM
i don't know if you bought yet but if you haven't I would no question go with the sony. The CX-12 is incredible. I absolutley love it. the quality/ size/ look/ usabiliy etc...is all fantastic.


peace,

ice
newhope wrote on 3/26/2009, 7:44 PM
Don't get pissed at me when I start pointing out FCP shortcomings

Blink you assume anger where there isn't any.. mild amusement at your tirades, but no anger.

I bought my Mac Pro back in 2006 to use it specifically for Vegas. It was cheaper at the time than buying an identically equipped HP or Dell off the shelf. I build and sell PCs from scratch as a registered reseller, not Macs, and the Mac Pro retail was only slightly more expensive than the wholesale costs for the components of an equivalent dual Zeon system with Tyan motherboard. I didn't even own FCP at the time, nor did I intend traveling that path.

Moving to AVCHD cameras and having problems with that format and Vegas made me look elsewhere though and, having dealt with Premiere in the past, I wasn't inclined to go back down that path. Besides the ABC here in Australia replaced all their AVID systems with FCP and, as I freelance there, I decided that having FCP in my own studio made some sense.

As for Apple, what large organisation doesn't have its own set of failings but what does this mean? Try outputting a normal ac3 file. The Final Cut Studio collection, without wishing to make you think I'm promoting it here, has AC3 professional encoding as part of Compressor and SoundTrack Pro ... though I really can't stand SoundTrack Pro myself.

do you REALLY expect some one to go out and spend...

I'm not trying to convert anyone to Mac or FCP I'm trying, through many posts, to get SCS to look at the shortcomings of the current version of Vegas in the hope, as many people here on this forum have, that the next version might cure the problems that Vegas Pro 8.x has with AVCHD, OMF, AAF, BWF to name just a few.

I've never said that FCP doesn't have problems of its own just that the current way it deals with AVCHD files makes editing the from an original AVCHD source simpler than Vegas does at present.

please don't try and tell me that I'M the one off topic here

I haven't said that at all Blink... check my posts, must be one of your inner demons speaking to you.

I asked if you were using the AVCHD because, if you are, I'd like to know how you are overcoming the inherent problems it has in Vegas and what amount of time it takes you to convert a 10 minute AVCHD using CINEFORM.

Like I said I'm after answers and news about how Vegas can handle AVCHD... I don't pretend to have all the answers... that isn't saying that you do... just that I don't.

So how about jumping off your high horse and giving us all some relevant info.

New Hope Media