Just in case support didn't mention this. To get the TC FX to display clip TC I think you have to apply the FX to the clip in the Project Media, not to the clip on the T/L.

Bob.

Thanks Bob, yes I apply the media fx but still all clips begin at 00:00.

I believe that Sony thinks this is a Panasonic issue and Panasonic thinks its a Sony issue. From what I can see so far, the Panasonic HMC150 timecode is not compatible with Vegas. I would love to be wrong and would just like to find someone who has the HMC150 and uses the time code successfully. I've checked all the metadata setting in the camera, and tried all types of different import methods camera settings and settings in Vegas. Nothing works.

I'm thinking of dumping my PC and going to FCP or just moving over to Premier Pro because timecode is now critical to the work I'm doing. It would be nice if Vegas 10 fixed this issue, or better yet if I'm just missing something, but I don't think so.

As far as I know time code does not work in avchd as it does on tape. There is really no such thing as a "clip" (or 'scene') on tape. A tape runs from start to finish and we rely on software to detect where the cam starts/stops in order to split into clips. The result is a run-on and continuing time code throughout the tape

With avchd each clip is in fact a completely separate entity from another clip. One clip has absolutely nothing to do with the ones next to it. The time code in other words will start at 00:00 with each new clip and does not run on for the duration of the flash card or hard drive.

The timecode effect only has fields to display time (and frames) but not date, so it does not appear that is is able to display absolute time (and date), only relative time. The same thing happens with a DV AVI clip which originated on tape.

I use WinDV, HDVsplit and PMB to rename DV, HDV and AVCHD clip file names to shooting time and date so that I can tell inside Vegas when each clip was taken. PMB is proprietory to Sony (you must have certain Sony cameras) so that is not an option for Panasonic users.

"so that is not an option for Panasonic users. "

The clips (I'm reasonably sure even Panasonic cams) do contain time/date info directly. If you drag a clip directly from the cam to the hard drive (without using the cam's supplied software... just drag n drop) then the time/date will show up in windows explorer under "date modified". You can use any batch rename program to rename the clips with the "date modified" value.

I know for a fact that Panasonic HMC150 timecode works fine in Final Cut Pro. The camera creates free run time code that runs continuously and is laid down as part of the metadata on each clip. This means that you can switch a camera off while the other camera keeps running turn, camera 2 back on and the timecode should match. The 4gb file limit for fat32 does not limit the time code or make it start at 00:00, it is a Vegas issue or possibly an import protocol issue that keeps Vegas from properly understanding and reading the metadata/ or clipinfo where the timecode is stored. Its much harder for an NLE to read the timecode properly since it isn't burned directly into the stream file. Just curious as to whether anyone else has done this successfully.

If the shooting time and date are included in the file's metadata, then MediaInfo does not display them. Are there any tools that do?

Perhaps FCP gets this data from the file creation date.

Peter, I'm not sure where "time of day" code entered into this. As far as I can tell the O.P. is asking about regular old timecode.

*If* Panasonic's AVCHD files contain real timecode and *if* Vegas can read timecode from, say, a Sony AVCHD file, then it's probably a matter of where the timecode resides in the Panasonic file.

A similar problem has existed forever with timecode in Premiere's captured files. Vegas can't read it. It's never been addressed by Adobe or Sony (or Sonic Foundry). I know of one third party application that will copy Adobe's TC into a standard file header location that Vegas can access.

If v10 doesn't address your problem and you still want to use Vegas then all I can suggest is mounting a campaign of product suggestions to SCS. Other than that I guess you could look for a third party app that rewrites timecode in your files. If it's a common problem then there might be something in existence that will do the job.

(All the preceding was me talking out of my B__T. After a little reading it turns out that Panasonic is using a proprietary AVCHD format that includes timecode. Standard AVCHD doesn't support timecode. The odds of Sony supporting a proprietary Panasonic format are not good, so if Vegas 10 doesn't support it then you're looking at either transcoding your media with a third party app that can preserve TC or moving to another NLE. Maybe DVFilm's Epic product can help?)

Rob Mack

"Peter, I'm not sure where "time of day" code entered into this"

Well my thinking was that the time will either be relative to the start of the clip or it will be absolute. If absolute, time would be ambiguous without date so absolute time has to be time-date. Since there is no field for the date then it can only be relative, which is what I get with Sony AVCHD.

Does the Panasonic timecode include date or is it relative and if so to what?

Has it been established what the OP wants? Absolute time or a synch with other recordings? If the latter, what timecode generator is synching everything?

I think we're talking about SMPTE timecode here so that's hours, minutes, seconds, and frames of video without any relation to date. The usual practice would be to just continue the timecode for each shot until the media fills up.

The OP is using a different option called free run where all cameras have their timecode synchronized at the beginning of the day and thenthe clock keeps rolling even if you're not recording. This method is used to ensure that everyone gets the same tv at any moment during the day. You don't need to know the date or actual time, you just need to know that everyone is using the same counter.

"Standard AVCHD doesn't support timecode."

http://hirntier.blogspot.com/2009/08/avchd-timecodes-revealed.html

Bob.

From the Pro 10 Readme:

Support for reading timecode in AVCHD and SD MPEG-2 files written by cameras that support timecode, such as Sony NXCAM cameras.

Mike

I was going to mention the NX5 :)

It offers camera sync via SMPTE timecode. Seriously hard to imagine a MPEG format that did not support TC.
From following a couple of leads from that blog it appears that the AVCHD cameras may write optional blocks that contain date/time data. As well as that the transport stream itself contains timecode, possibly only at every I frame.

Bob.

I think its great news that Sony now has an AVCHD camera with SMPTE timecode. If they have it, perhaps they made it similar in format to Panasonic. (Too much to ask?) Perhaps Vegas 10 is the answer, but I won't be upgrading until someone who has a Panasonic camera confirms that timecode works for them and doesn't just start at 00:00.


Otherwise I may need to save my upgrade money towards transitioning to Macs and FCP.

When all I cared about was events, timecode was a nice to have feature, but honestly I can sync pretty quickly off the audio. When trying to boil down 3-4 hours of interview footage from 3 cameras down to 15 minutes not having time code has been a major pain.

I'll confirm to others that as the OP I couldn't care less about time date stamp. Could I think of a situation where I'd use it? Maybe, but it isn't crucial.

If you're unwilling to install a Vegas Pro 10 trial and test this yourself then maybe you can email someone the shortest possible video file to try out. All they'd need is a few frames with Panasonic TC.

I'm downloading 10.0a now and could test it out later, but there are plenty of other people here who are already ready to go with 10.0a.

Rob

Bob, it seems like this just describes time of day vs smpte timecode. Am I missing something?

Rob

"Bob, it seems like this just describes time of day vs smpte timecode. Am I missing something?"

Agreed that's what's being talked about there however from doing some more link following and Googling I find references to data stored in the transport stream itself and Edius users reporting that it works for them but only displays the TC at every "I" frame.
I know Vegas has never read timecode, I had a DV tape years ago that had missing timecode on about 50% of one clip. If Vegas was doing it correctly it should not have displayed TC where there wasn't any. From my understanding Vegas and probably other NLEs take a shortcut and read the TC stamp at the start of the file and compute rather than read TC.

That might be OK, it's certainly easier than doing it correctly however it does go back to an issue that Vegas has had all along. It cannot chase TC. Not an issue with vision but can be an issue with sound. There's quite a few audio devices around that don't lock to TC, they just record the incoming TC. To compensate for drift the host app has to read the actual TC and chase it. Audio recorders that lock to TC and the attendant extra kit to support that is quite expensive compared to the gear that simply records it. Sorry I know this is getting way OT.

Bob.

So thanks to everyone that piped in on this thread, especially whoever it was that said that Vegas 10.0 might have support for AVCHD time code based on the new Sony AVCHD cams.

I first checked with DVMP Pro software and confirmed that my camera was outputting timecode, that Vegas Pro 9.0 could not read.

I then upgraded to Sony Vegas Pro 10.0 and found that timecode is there and the clips are camera timecode (don't start with 00:00) and not timeline timecode.

As a note for anyone else that can't make this work please note that you have to import the entire file structure of the AVCHD "private" folder for Sony Vegas to be able to read the timecode, and you have to add the sony timecode media fx at the media not timeline level. I'm also assuming that renaming the mts file could mess up the time code, but I haven't tried that yet.

Well I'm glad this is fixed. I wish it could have been done a long time ago especially as I'd given up on it ever happening and no longer have the entire file structure for some of the older files that I'm still editing (thus the time code is gone)