Have you found any preferreance on WHEN? Coming out of Vegas or within Architect?

To the best of my knowledge, it does not matter. If you do not convert it in Vegas, DVDA will convert it. If you do convert it in Vegas, DVDA will not touch it unless you manually tell it to. So, It does not matter as I think both use main concept mpeg encoder as default.

My preference is to frameserve out of Vegas to either Procoder or TMPGEnc. I love the quality obtainable with these two encoders.

Rendering to MPEG-2 from Vegas is far better. You can take advantage of the 2-pass VBR encoding, which DVDA does not have. Also, there are many other MPEG settings you can change.

I asked Sony this very same question a long, long time ago, and here is their advice:

DVDA Workflow

I completed a quick check between rendering in Vegas and Architect. When I render out of Vegas using all default settings, I obtain a mpeg-2 file that is about 1.9 Gigs for a 60 minute video (Default template has the following: Audio: 224 Kbps, 44,100 Hz, Layer 2, Video: 29.970 fps, 720x480). If I import this into Artchitect and prepare a DVD, it shows (obviously) that I am only using about 60% of capacity after a couple of menus are added.

If I render out of Vegas a .avi fie, it is close to the original size of around 14 gig as expected. When I import the avi file into Architect and prepare using the same menus, it gives an estimate that the rendered file size will be about 4.6 Gig of 98% of final DVD capacity.

It would appear that the latter option is doing much less compression and therefore would provide better results; or am I missing something else?

(If it matters at all, I am using Platinum Studio and Architect 3.0)

DVDA and DVDAS are both well known for poor estimation of project sizes. If you actually go thru a prepare phase, you'll likely end up with projects of similar sizes.

--Scott

It would appear that the latter option is doing much less compression and therefore would provide better results; or am I missing something else?

1. DVDA has one feature that Vegas does not have (and really can't have, because it doesn't know how many video files and menus will be on your DVD) and that is the ability to "compress to fit." This feature ensures that your video will be always compressed at the highest possible bitrate, but not too high, so that the video will just fit the 4.7 GByte DVD.

2. To get the same thing when you encode in Vegas, you need to use a bitrate calculator, such as the one available at DVDhelp.com.

3. If you do compress in Vegas (which I still recommend) do NOT use the "Default" settings. The video will look terrible. Sony still hasn't fixed this bug (or at least extremely poor choice) whereby much lower quality settings are used for the default. Instead, use one of the DVD Architect template, and then click on the Custom button and navigate to the average bitrate and change that to the appropriate rate to just make your video fit (according to the number given to you by the bitrate calculator).

For those who have not upgraded to Vegas (full verision) and are using Studio (Platinum), it appears that the "Custom" button that would allow for bitrate modification is not available (it is shown but greyed out) for MPEG-2 which seems odd as it is available for MPEG-1.

I guess this leads into another question than if there is a difference between MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 that would affect video quality.

If someone has a work around for Studio to customize a MPEG-2 render or if I need to be corrected, please let me know.

Thank you for all those replied and provided some great insight.

> To maintain the best video quality of the original avi file, what renderig file format have other users found work best for them;

MPEG2 and AC3 from Vegas will give you the highest quality. The reason is colorspace conversion. DV AVI is 4:1:1 colorspace (which is minimal), MPEG2 is 4:2:0 (which is better) and any generated media or still images in Vegas is 4:4:4 (which is best). That means when you render to DV AVI you are converting your 4:4:4 titles and images into 4:1:1 which will degrade their color quality. Rendering back up to 4:2:0 in DVDA is not going to help because you already lost the color information.

So if your project has any 4:4:4 media like stills, titles, or other generated media, you will get better results by rendering your MPEG2 file in Vegas. You also want the audio rendered to AC3 in Vegas so that it doesn’t get compressed into MPEG2 audio first and then AC3 audio. You want to go straight to AC3 audio from the timeline.

If the steps to do this are confusing to you (i.e., NEVER use the default template) just download the free DVDPrep script from the VASST web site and it will generate a DVD Architect MPEG2 video stream and AC3 audio stream with the push of a button. We built it especially for people who just want one button press and forget DVD file creation (ala. Make Movie)

> I guess this leads into another question than if there is a difference between MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 that would affect video quality.

Yea, MPEG-1 is much lower quality used for Video CD’s before consumer DVD burners existed. You don’t want to use it on a DVD.

~jr

JonnyRoy

I have downloaded the DVDPrep script and am testing it right now. It would be interesting to know which settings you have used in DVDPrep script. (I live in PAL land.)

Joran

If you live in PAL land then select PAL as the first option. If your source is DV select 4:3 aspect, if your source is DV Widescreen select 16:9 Widescreen. Most people will select 4:3 unless they have a camera that can shoot 16:9 or have converted their project to 16:9.

~jr

JonnyRoy
I meant: which custom settings do you use in the script. It would be nice to know these settings, so I know what I’m doing.

Joran

Hi all,

I've got a couple more questions regarding rendering. I film dog agility trials for our local agility club and put the finished clips on an authored DVD. I use a GL2 and sometimes a single CCD Canon Optura.

The AVIs on the Vegas timeline look fine. After trimming, each clip is only about 1 minute long. I then render each one to an mpeg2 file in Vegas 5. Last night I did about 8 of these one minute clips. As a test I did not add anything special to the clips except a .5 sec fade in and fade out. No text or anything else. I have no problems with the associated sound of each clip so won't talk about that.

For the render setting, I use the mainconcept encoder, set to best quality, with CBR set at 8,000. I put those clips in DVD Workshop and I can tell it is not doing anything to the clips as it completes the DVD authoring really quickly. Also authored using DVDA3 with the same results.

But the results aren't that great. If a handler and dog are not in motion then it's ok. But when they are running the course there is a certain amount of pixelation around them and shows up very clearly if you pause the play back.

So, do I need to shoot different?
Maybe faster shutter speed to begin with?
Render different?
VBR?
2 pass?
Let DVD Workshop or DVDA do the conversion?

Thanks for your suggestions.

Galen

> I meant: which custom settings do you use in the script.

Oh, sorry I misunderstood your post. DVDPrep uses the standard Vegas templates as follows:

For 4:3
NTSC uses DVD Architect NTSC video stream
PAL uses DVD PAL separate streams
Film 24p uses DVD Architect 24p NTSC video stream

For 16:9 Widescreen
NTSC uses DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream
PAL uses DVD Architect PAL Widescreen video stream
Film 24p uses DVD Architect 24p NTSC Widescreen video stream

All of the options use AC3 Stereo DVD for audio. (I guess I should sense 5.1 and use that too... next rev.)

~jr

JohnnyRoy,

I like the script.

However, what is really needed (just look back at all the posts in this forum), is a script that will also set the bitrate to ensure that the video gets encoded at the proper bitrate, given the length of the video. This of course makes an assumption that this video will be the only video in the DVDA project, and that the project will not include any unusually large menus, etc. Basically, all that would be required would be to get the project length (easy), do the same calculations as are done in any of dozens of bitrate calculators (easy), and then put the calculated bitrate into the Render As dialog (oops, not possible).

I started writing such a script a long time ago, and then realized the restriction in the script language doesn't let me set the bitrate. However, I have read in other posts you have made that you can put presets into the registry, and then read those. The "solution" would therefore be to have perhaps a dozen presets, and then simply read the one that is closest.

I can guarantee that such a script would be extremely valuable. Perhaps you should include it in the next release of your "ultimate s" product.

BTW, I just tried to get a feature list of Ultimate S, and found a lot of dead links at the VASST site, such as this one:

http://www.vasst.com/content/product/ultimate/ultimatetutorials.htm

John, you actually FOUND a page linked to that page? Or is that a bookmark from past? As I've indicated in the past, the only page we'll guarantee to be good links come from the homepage, as we're having problems with bandwidth pirates linking to our site pages without crediting where the info came from. I can't see anything that links to the page you put up, but of course, it could be somewhere I didn't look.

> The "solution" would therefore be to have perhaps a dozen presets, and then simply read the one that is closest.

Yup, I considered that but it would mean an explosion of templates making manual Render As a jungle to navigate. Here’s why:

If I created 8 templates from 2Kbps to 6Kbps in .5Kbps steps for each of NTSC/PAL/24p in 4:3 and 16:9 that would mean 48 templates. I think most people would shoot me if I added 48 templates to their dropdown box. (and I am highly allergic to hot lead passing through my skin... I break out in holes that bleed terribly) ;-)

It’s a hard call. Maybe I could make the templates an optional install by type (NTSC/PAL/24p?). The real fix is to get Sony to add support for manipulating templates in the Script API. I’ll see what I can come up with.

Re: VASST links. We redesigned the web site a while back and so any old bookmarks might not be working anymore. The more important question is not the dead link itself but what page did it come from so we can fix it.

~jr

The more important question is not the dead link itself but what page did it come from so we can fix it.

The link came from the following Google search:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-23,GGLG:en&q=vegas+%22ultimate+S%22

I realize the problems you have had with your site, and followed a little of the "soap opera" surrounding the theft of your IP, but there must be a better way to deal with this. I love your site and have contributed to it, but sometimes I have a difficult time finding things (actually I almost always have a tough time navigating the site). When I refer others to the site, if all I can do is provide a link the home page and then hope the user can navigate from there, well, that is asking a lot. Many of your best stuff is 3-5 levels below the main page. Nothing wrong with that, but it is not easy to navigate to some of these pages.

I am not much of a churchgoer, but I seem to remember in Sunday school there was always someone talking not wanting to put a lamp under a bushel. You've done all this marvelous work: Don't put it under a bushel!

Just my two cents worth ...

RE ... followed... the "soap opera" surrounding the [IP] theft

... basically a domain name hi-jack is what 'kids' call it these days (cornell.edu/ICANN)

RE I just tried to get a feature list of Ultimate S

John, what you're referring to is a tutorials page of a discontinued product Ultimate S v.1.0. So that old tutorials page is n/a. I had it bookmarked too, but that's what the upgrades are for :-)

Here's a new page: Ultimate S v.2.0: you'll find the new Tutorials there.

btw, speaking of the VASST website search engine, it's one of the best I've seen around. You get all sorts of categories, etc. The redesigned flyout menus are very intuitive. And the Newest Resources are right there at your finger tips. Can't complain, man. I'd give it another look-see instead of googling your queries.

HTH
~~~~
FYI: JR, the US1 page seemed to still be accessible through your site's search for "Ultimate S"/"Ultimate", hence, the search engines picking it up as well.

Ouch. Good points. We're still living in the soap opera, and that probably makes us more sensitive than we should be. Your comment about using only the homepage strikes home if folks don't know exactly where to look, but we're also sensitive to the content and domain being stolen/misused. It sucks when dishonest people and thieves can run or control our behavior, eh? It sorta means "they won."

Anyway, we'll be looking more deeply into ways to deal with this, even if it means leaving old pages up with redirects, because the Google thing really makes a strong point.