DVDA won't re-render if you give it a compliant file from Vegas.

Render direct from the timeline to a folder using Mpeg 2 Video only with the DVDA template. Save the markers and they will automatically become chapters in DVDA if you choose to add chapters when you create the menu.

Render AC3 audio from the timeline to the same folder using the DVDA template.

When you import the video file into your DVDA project it will find the audio along with it because it is in the same folder.

Preview it immediately and you will see it and hear it.

Suggested bitrate for best quality would be 8,000,000 CBR provided the video is one hour or less.

If you create an avi file first you have already compressed it from it's original quality. Then when you create the Mpeg 2 it will be compressed again. That is why we suggest you render direct to Mpeg 2 from the timeline. To avoid an additional compression step.

John

But then it renders again -- to MPEG-2 if I'm not mistaken.

Strictly speaking, this isn't a render. It's an encode. Rendering is the process of applying all your cuts, effects, etc to create a new file. DVDA is just encoding (aka, compressing) that AVI to an MPEG2.

The question of whether or not it makes a difference -- time-wise and quality-wise -- if you render in Vegas and encode in DVDA or do both in one full swoop in Vegas has never really been answered, I don't think. (Other than, of course, the time it takes to go to File > Render As each time.) In some people's experience, the all-Vegas route is faster and produces the best quality. Others say it makes no difference. Who knows.

Generally speaking, I like to have an AVI and an MPEG2 in case I need them, so I render an AVI and put it back on the timeline to render to MPEG2. That way, I have them both in case I need them. I tend to shy away from letting DVDA do the encode for two reasons:

1. Vegas has more options for encoding. The DVDA video stream templates are usually fine for me, but it's nice to know I can customize when I need to.

2. If you give DVDA and AVI file, you do not get an intermediate MPEG2 file. It goes from AVI to MPEG2 to VOB but discards the regular MPEG2 file. So if I decide to create a new DVDA project using that video (but with different content as well), I have to either go through that encode all over again or try to recreate an MPEG2 from the VOB files.

The only time I see giving DVDA an AVI as a real advantage is when, for some reason, you want to make use of DVDA's Fit to Disc feature. Then, it's pretty much required.

Rob

The biggest advantage to doing your MPEG renders from Vegas is that still photos and generated media avoid an encoding step.
Unlike DV video which is 4:1:1 colour space, these two sources start off as 4:4:4 colour space.
See Adam Wilt's site for examples of what this looks like.
Rendering to AVI and then MPEG converts 4:4:4 to 4:1:1 and then to 4:2:0 in DVDA.
Rendering to MPEG from Vegas avoids the intermediate step which results in less of a quality hit to photos and generated media.

...

Excellent suggestion :-)
Doing this has saved me on more than one occasion.

The only time I see giving DVDA an AVI as a real advantage is when, for some reason, you want to make use of DVDA's Fit to Disc feature.

That's why I use a bitrate calculator.

Mike

Thank you very much for the information. I have always used either a slider bitrate adjuster, as in V5, or now the "fit to disk." Are you telling me that if I render to MPEG-2 from the timeone that neither one of those are options and I have to get a calculator? And if I do, where do I get one?
Thanks,
Burt

Sony answered this ages ago:

Sony advice on whether to render in DVDA or Vegas

Short answer: Always render to MPEG-2 from Vegas.

Burt (jazzmaster), here's a link to the bitrate calculator I use if the video is going to be over (approx.) 70 min. in length.
Note: this links to a zipped file.

Mike

Most of my videos are around 2 hours long. I am curious which encoding is best: CBR, VBR (1-pass) or VBR (2-pass). I used a bitrate calculator for 1-pass VBR on my last project, and following the suggested max, avg and min bitrates (which I even cut down a bit), when I play back the DVD it appears to have a bitrate of around 9000kbps. Isn't this almost pushing the envelope? Also, DVDA noted that the mpg was too big--I don't know if it re-encoded or not. So what am I doing wrong now? How is everyone else encoding? I have a fast PC, so I want the most bang for the buck, but quality and compatibility are #1!! I still am new to figuring out optimum bitrates, for I used to just record DVD+RWs to my standalone DVD recorder, rip the VOBs to my hard drive use Ulead DVD MovieFactory to author from there. This, of course, was CBR encoding (real time using the standalone), but quick and easy. Now I want to graduate to the next level, so any and all advice would be most helpful and appreciated! Thanks in advance.

Here's the online bitrate calculator that many have used for years:

Bitrate Calculator

You can download this here:

Bitrate Calculator Download

You can also use my Excel spreadsheet calculator which I think (modestly) is even better:

Meyer Excel Bitrate Calculator

As for bitrates, use VBR for everything. I see no advantage whatsoever to using CBR. Don't alter the max or min (in the Vegas MPEG-2 encoder). Change the average to match what you get from the bitrate calculator.

As for when to use 2-pass, I don't think there is a hard and fast rule, but my "rule," based on gut instinct and also on looking at lots of tests over the years, is that when the bitrate required to fit your stuff falls below 6,000,000 bps, then you should use two-pass. The only advantage to two-pass is that it looks at the entire video first, and then allocates bits to the portions of the video that will pixelate if encoded at slow bitrates, and takes bits away from relatively static scenes that will look fine even if encoded at 2,000,000 bps. By contrast one-pass VBR only looks at a few seconds of video at a time, and does a little local optimization, without regard to what might happen later in the video.

Hope that helps.

Many thanks to you all. I learned more than I bargained for, but then you guys always come through.
Burt

It seems to me then that 2 pass should be used routinely as the only downside is that it takes more time. If that time is not a problem then you should always get a better encode (sometimes just marginally) with 2-pass over 1-pass???

I always use 2 pass and it's not just more time, it's exactly twice as long. I always use it because almost every DVD I make is over an hour and I want the best encode.

If that time is not a problem then you should always get a better encode (sometimes just marginally) with 2-pass over 1-pass???

Except for 2x the time, I am not aware of any downside to 2-pass, so if you have lots of time and don't have a deadline or don't need to maximize throughput, then go ahead and do everything 2-pass.

However, I always strongly recommend that you do tests on short segments of your project and see of you can tell the difference, whether it be between CBR and VBR, or 1-pass vs. 2-pass, or 9-bit vs. 10-bit (one of the MPEG-2 encoder settings), etc. As I indicated in my last post, I have done these tests, and I'll be darned if I can see ANY difference between 1-pass and 2-pass when the bitrate is 7,000,000 or higher, and I have to look REALLY hard to see much difference even down to 6,000,000.

However, by the time you reach 4,000,000, it is pretty easy to see the difference, if you have fast motion, or lots of blue sky, or smoke (three things that are the first to break down at lower bitrates).

The Meyer Excel Bitrate Calculator, as I just found out, works with Open Office too. I'm using a fairly early version of Open Office (v1.1), just in case that matters.

For some reason, the other html one stopped working for me. (I even re-downloaded & installed, still nothing) Then I tried the one that was online and it took about 2 minutes for it to appear. Apparently something has changed in Java or something, but of course I have no clue. I actually thought I was up-to-date with Java, so I'm clueless.
The Excel one works just fine.
Thank you, johnmeyer

The math here is so simple you can also do it in your head, if you wish. Just divide 600 by the number of minutes of video. The result represents the average total bitrate to shoot for (including the audio bitrate). So to get the average bitrate for the video encode, subtract the ac3 audio bitrate from the previous calculation. It's that simple.

Example: For a 90 minute video, 600 / 90 = 6.67Mb/sec. Subtract .2 (if you're using ac-3 audio of .2Mb/sec) and you get 6.47. So I'd set the average bitrate at 6.5.

For any projects involving less than about an hour of video there's no need to do VBR since you have enough room on the DVD disk to run the encoder flat-out (or, say, at 8Mb/sec). It's only with longer projects that you need to start thinking about going to VBR in order to better allocate a scarce resource.

I use CinemaCraft to do my MPEG2 encodes. It offers a number of ways of encoding, from CBR to 1-pass VBR to n-pass VBR (up to 10 passes!). A 1-pass VBR deals strictly with "Quantization Factor" and allocates more bits to more complex scenes, but since the encoder has no idea what lies ahead, it can't do a very good job of estimating the final file size. By contrast, a 2-pass (or higher) encode means the encoder knows exactly what I'm expecting the final file size to be, so it precisely allocates bits between static and dynamic scenes. The resulting file size matches what I specify in advance. Additional passes further refine the allocation, but there is little to be gained over about 4 passes.

Here's the problem,
While it's very important for you to have all that memorized, I probably only need to use the bitrate calculator about once or less a year. I rarely go above 80 minutes and I already have presets for a few settings with longer time. So by the next time I need to calculate my settings, I'll have forgotten you even posted this.
Formulas are easy when you use them often. My memory sucks these days, if I don't.