Tough question! Image quality depends on lens quality and CCD size. I'm sure you will get a lot of personal preferences. I've only used 2 camcorders, my first a Canon ZR, now a Canon Optra MC100. Go to your local store and get a feel for weight, control locations, and features. Then buy the one you like the most.

I have seen the Panasonic 3CCDs on ebay in that price range. Not a bad deal for 3CCDs.

I’ve seen the Panasonic 3CCD PV-GS120 first hand at Circuit City and for $629 nothing even comes close. I compared it side by side with several cameras there and it just had a crisper picture and more accurate colors. I’m saving up for the PV-GS200 myself. If you have a Circuit City near you go and check it out.

~jr

Canon Elura 60, $569 (Amazon) full kit + they have a free upgraded SD card and a free extra battery offer going. Fabulous small camera, natural feel and controls, very nice pictures especially low light performance. I shoot with an XL1S and have the Elura as a second camera (my PC-10 gave out).

IF (big IF) you want something to do a good job of analogue passthru look into the Digital 8 cameras. Unfortunately Sony seem to be downsizing the CCDs in them which isn't a good thing. Might be able to pick up an older one on eBay. If you can find one with a dead transport at the right price could make a good poor mans A/D converter.
Had a client in today trying to capture valuable footage from Hi8 tapes. He'd been everywhere for help, best results so far were from our venerable D8 cameras.

Make sure the DV camcorder you get has A/V in. You will be able to transfer all of your analog footage to DV. When I was looking into digital camcorders, the digital 8's didn't have as high resolution as a straight DV camcorder.

The resolution on the D8 cameras (or lack there of) is only the CCD / lens performance, as afr as I can see that has nothing to do with the A/D performance. In that department they outshine any of the DV cameras which don't have a TBC or DNR. That can make ALL the difference whne capturing from analogue, particularly from old tapes. I could also mention something else that they do that DV cameras wont but that'd be naughty.

>I could also mention something else that they do that DV cameras wont but that'd be naughty.<

Intrigued!

I have edited several pieces shot on D8 and quite honestly, I have trouble telling the difference in picture quality between those 1-chippers and my VX-2000! D8 tapes are also much cheaper than mini-DV tapes. The Panasonic 3-chippers in the GS and DV series are also a heck of a deal. The main drawback with them is that they are very small, so handheld shots get you a lot of shake even with the steady shot features, and their ccd's are very small (1/6"), so they have low-light issues. On the plus side, they have excellent color reproduction for a sub-$1000 camera.

One plus with the D8's is that you can find refurbished ones for under $200!

I agree on the Elura. Very nice little cam with "workable" image quality.

BTW, if pass thru A/D conversion is important to you, all Canon models does this well. I'm not sure wich others brands/models does this.

Could I also add that of all the DV25 formats D8 is the most robust.
I just wish Sony or someone would build a 3 CCD D8 camera with decent glass.

I found a company that just dropped the price on their Panasonic DV953, which is the top of the line for their 3ccd comsumer models to a little over $600. These sell on the Bestbuy and Circuit City sites for 1,400. or more.

http://amphotoworld.com/product.asp?id=pspvdv953&itemname=Panasonic%20PV-DV952%20Mini%20DV%20Camcorder&discontinued=1

I replaced my broken Hitachi with the Sony TRV460 D8 camera and have been very surprised. It has good low light, good image, and excellent sound for an on-board mic. (Sony seems to be doing some magic to remove the motor noise).

Draw backs, as mentioned, is lens quality produces chromatic aberration (purple fringe). Image quality is comparable to my expensive miniDV (TRV27) camera, and I find myself using the 460 more often because it just performs so much better in indoor lighting.

Moral ... buy a camera that has a decent lux rating, 4 or less. Even if you only think you're going to use it for outdoor shots.

Thanks all for the help!

Ebay isn't really good for me since I'd like to be able to purchase on a "so much a month" plan.

There's a sale going on for the Canon Optura 10. Regularly $900Can going for $550.
Does anyone have any input to give regarding this model?

I'll take your advice regarding the lux rating. Even outdoors, there's always dusk to contend with. ;-)

Thanks again.

Mario

> I found a company that just dropped the price on their Panasonic DV953, which is the top of the line for their 3ccd comsumer models to a little over $600.

A&M Photo World has a rating on Resellerratings.com of 0.41 out of 10! That’s a rating less than ½ of 1 on a scale of 1 to 10 folks!!! According to the customer stories, they are running a “bait & switch” operation. You will never get the camera for that price. I think its fair to say this you should NOT be buying from this particular merchant. Don’t believe everything you see on the Internet. ;-)

You can get the Panasonic PV-DV953 from B&H Photo for $979.95. A very reputable dealer.

~jr

Also look at the Canon Optura XI. I've seen it for as little as 750-800 and it has full manual control, manual audio controls,and zebra stripes. It's on my list for Santa :-)

A&M Photo World has a rating on Resellerratings.com of 0.41 out of 10! That’s a rating less than ½ of 1 on a scale of 1 to 10 folks!!! According to the customer stories, they are running a “bait & switch” operation. You will never get the camera for that price. I think its fair to say this you should NOT be buying from this particular merchant. Don’t believe everything you see on the Internet. ;-)

Thanks Man. I didn't know about that site, I promptly cancelled my order. I need to send you a hamburger for saving me a lot of stress.

Just how fast did you say you had to have that camcorder? On 4 July Panasonic is set to release their hot new GS400 3 chipper in the US. At that time the DV953 and others should take a small price drop. Not overnight, mind you. The GS400 isn't going to be cheap, but it should put some downward pressure on some other older models.

Keep an eye on Ebay for the 953. I picked mine up there lightly used for a cool $800.00, and it is a GREAT little camera.

I swear by my TRV103 Digi8 - haven't tried newer Sony models, though. Just completed a three cam shoot - my TRV103 along with a Sony PD150 (I think that's the model - expensive, good looking cam with XLR audio inputs), and a Canon XL1 (the one with the kink in it's body!).

Images from all three cams were quite sharp - the expensive Sony gave a bit "less loud" image than my cam, and the XL1's image was so warm (in terms of color temp) that I had to color correct to make it's image match acceptably.

But, on the whole, except that this footage was being mixed side by side, I found each cam to do an admirable job (the subject was a staged musical).

There were certain "night" scenes - and on those, my cam clearly outshown the other two. None of their images were acceptable in low light - and using the brightness/contrast pluggin caused the image to wash out rather than improving it (tips here would be welcome).

Audio on each machine was great - although, since we used external mics on the expensive Sony, that track was used in the final print.

Considering what my cam cost vs the other two, its low light superiority, and decent comparison of its images against the other two, I'm still quite happy with my purchases.

I didn't actually operate the other two cams, but I'm sure they include special features that justify their additional cost for someone who needs those features - and I know their glass is superior to mine - but, if having to do it over again, in the $600-$800 price range, I would not hesitate to buy another Digi8 of similar quality to the one I presently own.

Nice cam, good features, right size, etc.

Good luck with your selection. Let us know what you decide on.

Caruso

Office Depot's Subsidiary, Computers 4 Sure, is prelisting the Panasonic 3 chipper PV GS400 at $1204 including shipping. This is out of your range, but appears at this point to be a real buy.

It is due on 4 July 2004.

I have 3 Sony D8 cams with the same 1/4" CCD as the 103. They're fine, but there's no way I would compare them with a PD150 or the consumer version, VX2000. I don't know how you got better low light results with yours. Most 3 chippers do better at this, and the 150 is REALLY good at low light.

I suspect the 103 was in an autoexposure mode so it adjusted F stop & aperture as the scenes changed, and the 150 was set to manual, so the aperture didn't open as the lights dropped. Just a guess. I know mine give pretty grainy vid in low light, but then most one chippers do. In fact, the smaller DVs and newer D8s use even smaller CCDs for even worse low light vid!

Other issues with the D8s - the auto mode changes the color temp while filming under some lighting - fluorescent and sodium lights for sure. And sharp lines cause annoying purple/yellow artifacting, which is present on most single chippers but worst on the D8s.

I still like the cams for what they are; they're easy to use, the perfect size for me, have analog passthru and "acceptable" performance for now, and (the biggie) just over $200 a pop on eBay!