Eugenia,

I felt a little uneasy with the Sanyo/Samsung, but preferred the Sony/Canon route as well. I reviewed the HF-S11 and really like it's features.

As for SLRs, they should be reserved for stills (IMO). On a key note, I did see a news footage and a videographer was using a SLR with a "steady cam" style mount (small unit that stands about two feet tall) over his head with a secondary LCD monitor for viewing angles.
Quite impressive to see, so my options are never set in stone.

I have been looking at different Prosumer products with prices that reflect it.

The Canon HF-S11 did have some features that I was looking for....

1- Aux. audio input (will be used for a wireless mic., even though I still use supplimental audio recorders)
2- Image stabilizer (when I go into uncontrollable seizure moments)
3- Hot Shoe (even though it is a mini style, it is a hot shoe).

Thanks for the reply !

Aaron

On this site
http://camcorder-test.slashcam.com/campair-EN.shtml
you can compare 2 cameras one-to-one.

Try to move the cursor in the 1200/12 LUX pics...
I.e the grass down to the right is pretty challenging for the cameras.

Compare i.e. the Canon HF-S11 to i.e. the Sony CX550 (which, btw., also has got your 3 listed features)

>As for SLRs, they should be reserved for stills (IMO).

Actually, there is a HUGE revolution happening right now regarding HD dSLRs. Vimeo is full of such newfound artists using these cameras. There is even a community around it, with front-enders being Philip Bloom, Timescapes, Tom Williamete etc.

The footage you can get out of these cameras is amazing, and if you have the lenses, you should go for an HD dSLR, not for a camcorder.

Regarding your needs, the last "good' camera that had a hot-shoe was the Canon HV40 (tape-based, real 24p support). The HF-S11 and all the AVCHD cams from Canon have a mini-hotshoe, which is NOT compatible with most accessories.

In terms of manual controls, audio input, lens image stabilization, real hot shoe, again, you should be looking at dSLRs. The first 4 music videos on my Vimeo page were shot with the Canon 5D btw: http://vimeo.com/eugenia/videos

I would suggest against Panasonic for not having as many manual controls as the Canons (and for having a baked look that's making people's faces look really red), but especially against the Sony, which has even fewer manual controls. It's one thing to say "oooh, this Sony camera has a 16x zoom", and another to dig deeper and find out that the Sony cameras don't have any way to change the look, or shutter speed. If you care about art, these features are more important than some easy-to-see features, like zoom range, or LCD size. On the other hand, if you're just doing random family and travel videos, handheld, even a Sanyo cheapo cam will be enough. So it all depends what kind of a shooter you are.

Personally, since I try to do a bit of art, I wouldn't use any of the cams that don't offer me some basic control (and funnily enough, the $200 digicams from Canon do offer me more control than some $500 camcorders). Once, I was given a Kodak Zi6 for free. Let there be known that I gave it away, couldn't stand it.

I agree. There is a revolution in budget filmmaking.

I recently worked on an indie that was shot on a Canon 7d. You can pick this up for about $1400, sans lens. See if you can find a good aftermarket lens or a used/refurbished on (I did and got a lens that I defy you to point out the difference between that and brand new. Nikon refurbished.)

The footage was unbelievable. I mean it wowed me. When I showed up on the set, I couldn't believe the camera guy had this regular-looking dSLR hooked up to his steadicam. I was leery, until I saw the results.

If I could afford a new camcorder, this is the way I'd go. Check out the indie forums, you'll see. A Canon t2i is the entry into this great world. Puts my older Canon miniDV to shame, believe it or not (for the price, that is).

When a most devoted Canon fan is criticizing other brands/cameras it would be fair to stick to the basic facts.

The CX550, that I mentioned has not got a 16 x zoom :- )))

And it has manual settings for
-focus
-exposure
-iris
-shutter speed
-AE shift
-WB shift

Besides it has got a very good active stabilization (3 "gyros") - by some testers judged stronger than many other brands...

Exactly what Eugenia says.

Buy the canon 550D/T2i and the only limit will be your own talent and skill...

Not having the $$ to spend on these things right now I haven't kept up with the latest news .. but .. early on many (or most .. or all) DSLRs that shot HD video had a rather short time it could continuously shoot (like 10 min).

I don't know if this has changed, and if so by how much .. but if you even *think* you may need to shoot an extended scene (like a sports game for instance) check out how long the DSLR you are considering purchasing will shoot video.

I don't shoot sports, but I do shoot 45 to 60 min single takes with my SD camera.

All Canon dSLRs do 12 mins of recording and Canon digicams do up to 24 mins. This is because of FAT limitation.

If you need to shoot weddings, or events that need continuous shooting, then you need a tape-based camcorder. Not even many AVCHD camcorders will do the trick for you, since many of them also have the 4 GB limit.

So in that case, your best bet is the Canon HV30 (or HV40 if you need 24p). This will set you back $500 to $700.

At one brief moment, my mind was starting to open up for DSLRs. Recording length limitations and no audio inputs for wireless mics.


Aaron

Canon dSRLs do have audio inputs.

But as I said, if you just need long recording time, then you have to go tape. Don't even look at the new generation of cams. Get the HV40.

After reading the Pros/Cons of the DSLR, I decided to Gurgle the net and found this...
http://betterinternetvideo.com/all-posts/pros-and-cons-of-recording-video-with-a-dslr/

Alot of work for a clean shot. I am waiting to see how the new Sony Camcorder with interchangeable lenses is going review. I read it is scheduled for release in a month or two.

Hmmm ?!?!

Regarding the cons in that URL:

> 1. There’s a 12-minute recording limit for video clips;

And there's a 24 minute limit on most AVCHD cams too. Like in that Sony camera with interchangeable lenses. As I said above, if you need really long recording sessions, then you need to go tape.

> 2. You may need separate audio gear like the Zoom H2 to record your audio, which will require syncing to picture later with a slate or software such as PluralEyes for $149;

This is not true. The Canon dSLR microphones are almost as good as in any consumer camcorder. I shot the dialog with my 5D, no external mics: http://vimeo.com/14131591 it came out just fine -- short movie quality.

> 3. Requires a decent understand of still photography principles such as aperture, ISO and shutter speed to take full advantage of all the manual settings;

This is a plus, not a con. If you don't have the knowledge about how to use manual settings, then you should not be eyeing any such camera. If "auto" mode is all you need (btw, there is an auto mode on dSLRs, just like on camcorders), then you might want to go with a less capable camera. A cheap tape camera, for example.

> 4. There’s a funky workflow needed to bring the footage into an editing program

Not very funky. It just requires an extra $100 for Cineform NeoSCENE, which has an automated workflow to convert MOV to AVI for easier Vegas preview. Alternatively, there's the free Matrox AVI codec: http://buildyourown.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/how-to-transcode-mov-files-using-matrox-codecs/

The only REAL disadvantage of the Canon dSLRs is the inability of these cameras to continuously-focus (limitation does not exist in Panasonic's 4/3 dSRLs). It is a design decision Canon engineers had to take because with the current Canon technology it's not possible to have a reflex camera and continuous focus. However, future models, that might not have a viewfinder, might be able to go around the limitation. So, then, yes, we agree, this is a pain in the bum. Even with a follow-focus addon ($150 for the cheapest such addon) it's still not easy to focus properly if your subject is moving.

But apart of the above limitation, there aren't really any other _real_ show-stoppers.

> 2. You may need separate audio gear like the Zoom H2 to record your audio, which will require syncing to picture later with a slate or software such as PluralEyes for $149;

This is not true. The Canon dSLR microphones are almost as good as in any consumer camcorder. I shot the dialog with my 5D, no external mics: vimeo.com/14131591 it came out just fine -- short movie quality.

Well with any camcorder the general rule is that the closer you can get your mic to the subject the better the sound. "On-camera" mics may do just fine, but mostly not.

With dual system sound (a Zoom H2, or H4 or shortly the H1 or something similar) you don't "need" Pluraleyes, or even a slate ( or clap, or flash) to sync. Yes, it is easier, but it isn't really all that hard to do it without those things. I do it all the time.

Yes, but if this is true for dSLRs, it's also true for consumer camcorders. So this doesn't help with the subject here, which is trying to find disadvantages of dSLRs compared to camcorders. Obviously, audio is not one of them (con). dSLRs have 3.5mm audio inputs, and almost the same audio quality with their built-in mics as most AVCHD and HDV consumer cameras do. In fact, most consumer camcorders these days don't have audio inputs, so that gives the advantage to dSLRs. So this is not a "con", as it was originally presented, which sprout my reply.

As for the reality of the matter, I own a clapper, the Zoom H4n, the Rode NTG2 *and* the Rode Stereo VideoMic microphones, deadcats for both, and even a boom mic pole. But for the purposes of the video I linked, the built-in mic of the 5D MkII did the job admirably and I didn't need to carry/use any of that specialized gear.

As I mentioned above, the only real disadvantage of the Canon dSLRs is the lack of continuous auto-focus. The Panasonic cams can do that, but these cams have other limitations, of the worse kind. So Canon it is.

Note that PluralEyes only works with Sony Vegas PRO, not Sony Vegas STUDIO.