Thanks Don....

Your statement about a good VCR makes sense. I haven't been pleased with recordings on my current VCR (Panasonic). I'm looking to get something else.

Thanks again....

" I'm looking for the best source when making multiple copies on VHS tapes."

How many copies are you talking about??

Could be anywhere from 20-40 copies....

Another alternative you might want to consider: You can buy a used Sony Umatic VTR on ebay for next to nothing. You can copy from DV to Umatic with much better quality than VHS. Then you can replay the Umatic tape as many times as you need. This saves wear on your DV machine and still gets you pretty high quality. For the VHS recorder, get a pretty good one. I saw a pro machine (old) on ebay the other day go for less than $200. And then make sure the head is cleaned frequently, since it will be getting a lot of use. Head crud is worse on recording than it is on playback (when recorded with noise, you double the degradation).

If your making 20-40 copies- I would not use your camera! The transport system on consumer cameras cannot hold up to the constant rewind, shuttle and cueing. You will ruin your camera in 6 months or less....
In your case, even though the native DV would be best, I would opt for the DVD to VHS in order to maintain your equipment.

If you are doing alot of editing and dubbing... I would strongly suggest looking into the entry level Mini DV / DVCAM Sony deck- the DSR-11. You can pick one up for just under $2K and they are made for demands of editing!

My advise for now would be to make the DVD for your dubbing to save your camera...and seriously look into the DSR-11
Have a great day!
Mike

For VHS copies I don't think you'll notice any quality fall-off from a well-encoded DVD. If you are making 20 copies or more, and you value your time at all, I'd suggest getting several VCRs so you can make several copies at once. I have a "video distribution amp" with one input and several video outputs, so I can run the camcorder signal into several VCRs at once. Caution: the Radio Shack 4-way dist.amp RS Cat.# 15-1172 I tried was bad, it clipped whites which degraded the image quality. (I now use an older RS dist.amp, no longer sold.)
A model like Sign Video sells http://www.signvideo.com/da8_da16_video-distribution-amplifier.htm is probably of good quality, although I don't have one myself.

I have tried several different kinds of VHS tape from cheap to expensive, and haven't found significant differences, but see for yourself. http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/VHS/vhs.html
(Except the cheapest tapes more frequently have cracked or broken cases, so you have to manually sort through them.)

There definitely is a difference in quality between VCRs, but I believe it is most significant on playback. On record, the difference is not so great (unless of course the deck mangles your tape, not so uncommon.)

Hello,

If your camcorder has a pass through (my old Sony Digital 8 has one..) you can "preview" the avi file from the vegas video capture program, and hook up RCA's or an S-video connection to your VCR and press record. THis is the way I do it. Your not ruining your cameras vtr because its not actually playing a tape, it is just passing through the dv stream from the file to your camcorder to your VCR/TV. This make sense? If your camera has pass through, I suggest you try this. (or distribute on DVD altogether since players are cheaper than buying 25 very good blank VHS tapes)

good luck,

Brian Artka
www.influx-media.com

Thanks for all the responses....

My Sony camcorder does have a pass through, so I will look into reproducing VHS tapes that way. In the meantime, looks like using a DVD to make/copy VHS tapes is my best option at the moment, since I don't want to wear out my camcorder.

Thanks again...

Hey AnotherMovieMaker,

I, too, am recording church events and making copies for the members, and have had to deal with the VHS/DVD media issue.

Have you considered just dropping VHS altogether?

It might just be cheaper, in time and money, just to buy a DVD player for all those hold outs (slight tongue in cheek here).

And I bet once they realized the services come only on DVD they'll be motivated to spend the $60 - $100 to buy a unit of their own.

DVD is so much more flexible, durable, copyable, and capable that it's demoralizing to have to put your work onto VHS.

David

dmcmeans: i can echo your sentiment. Now that we do all the audio recording and editing for our church on a PC and burn the finished service to a CD, it's very difficult to justify making cassette copies. We've decided it's worthwhile to buy a nice new cheap $40 combo AM/FM/CD player at Wal*Mart for the few shut-ins who didn't have them than to continually churn out a dozen cassette copies each week. CDs are cheaper and seem to be a lot more durable than tapes too.

You could also get a converter such as the Canopus ADVC-100. That way you can print to VHS straight from your PC. Figure around $300 for one, although I'v seen them for $250. They are of course also great for previewing on external monitor. No matter what you use it for, it helps in the preservation of your camera. You would also be getting the best quality output vs dubbing from another rendered source.

Since most DVD blanks are running $3-$5 each, there is a budget.
Have you considered a VHS duping service?
I never want to dupe tapes again. Forget the wear and tear on the machinery (don't use your camera for this -ABSOLUTELY NOT) - the wear and tear on the person, weekly??, is overwhelming.
You should be able to get professional dupes for under $3 each (depending on the length of the tape, of course).
I'd say, cut down the show (service) to an hour (on the tape, not in real life), make a DV master and send it off.
What do you think?

Victor,
I agree with you- did not mention a dupe house (like Allied-Vaughn) since I guessed there was no budget for out of pockets?? I could be very wrong on that...my guess is the vhs for that qty will run $6-$10 each...so 20 to 40 could run $120 to $400
Have fun anothermoviemaker- and dont use your camers!

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. This is a great board.

All of you have given me some great ideas. The dupe service is a possibility that my church may decide to pay for. I'll definitely look into that. But I agree with the concensus that I should make as few VHS copies as possible (if any at all) so that all the VHS owners will seriously consider buying a DVD player. Of course, for those that can't afford one, the church may opt to furnish them one.

Plus, you're right about my time involved if I did the VHS copying myself. 20-40 tapes is a lot of copying on a regular basis.

Again, thanks for everyone's help....

FWIW, stuff to perhaps think about...

Whether doing DVDs, CDs, VHS etc., seems it would be worth it for those doing weekly church services and such that it might be cool to find a local facility to do the dupping, ideally as a service for reduced rates or even free. Same idea sort of as supporting a kids' soccer team or whatever, their name appears somewhere and they write off what they can.

Another thought would be to get together with one or more other churches in the area, and split the cost of dupping equipment - church A would run their dups say Wed, church B Thur, & so on...

Personally, my inclination would be to investigate running a live feed from your camera (s) to a PC for live encoding to winmedia or real. Content could be webcast live or posted afterwards, burned to CD for distribution etc... Of course a similar setup could be used to encode to DVD, or VHS for that matter.

This is based of course on my personal pref. - I've worked with the disabled, and getting any shut-ins a PC would IMO be far more valuable then a DVD player. Can be had for very cheap, or actually free if you solicited donations of old equipment from local biz (there is a glut of old equipment stuffing out landfills). And where a DVD player does only that, a PC with a modem & a $10 monthly online account keeps people in touch with the world, makes life immeasurably easier (REALLY) - but don't need to tell anyone reading this the benefits.

And finally, posting your services on the web could be seen as a way to reach a wider audience then perhaps you knew existed.

Also FWIW,

When dubbing to VHS, I've seen a big difference using a VCR with an S-Video input rather than composite. Particularly on titles and other things that benefit from clear contrast and lines.

G

Yup. Agreed. I use the S-video output on the cam to the s-video input on the SVHS (dubbed in VHS, not SVHS). The copies look far better than the washed out composite inputs.

Well, I guess I've been a dummy...using my older Sony Digital 8 to duplicate tapes (up to 20 at a time)--actually, my kids do the duplicating for me. I'll use the VCR that is near my computer and pass through the AVI files via my Sony the next time. Besides, the camera occasionally gives me trouble with the transfer.

Good info on this thread.

I just picked up the new Zenith dual DVD/VHS machine--it is one of the only ones (Go does, but has no RCA on front, no progressive scan, etc.) that can copy a DVD. It is also cheap at $159 on sale at Circuit City. It was a piece of cake. I burned my files to a DVD. I then selected the files to run (or have only 1 file on the DVD and it will run automatically) and manually pressed the "copy" button. The transfer was immediate and worked great. The unit is also self-contained, can fit close to the PC, and has RCA jacks on the front--so I can use my Sony Digital8, or Canon GL2 pass-through if I choose (I have not yet tested which is better).

The copies I made look fine, although the DVD is noticably better (as expected). The unit is metal (not plastic like all the others I saw), and runs quiet. The only complaint is the slow rewind--but I have a rewinder I can use if I prefer to duplicate a few quickly without waiting for the tape to rewind.

It was especially critical, since I am having problems transfering to either my Sony or my Canon (never really works).

Hope this helps.

P.S. For tape, I buy in bulk (50/box) and get "Master" grade (higher than the "Pro" grade that cost $6.00 each) for only .76, plus the sleeve .12 and the label--these are for 20 minute tapes (a little more or less depending on length--but you only have to pay for the length you need (never 2 hours). I typically us BASF, although I can get Fuji for about .96. There are sources on-line, but I buy from a place downtown (ProMedia, in Austin, TX).