Best way to solve moire problem. Motion blur? Gaussian Blur? Other?

EricLNZ wrote on 9/12/2024, 6:20 PM

I usually mask the problem area and apply Quick Blur, more than once if necessary until It builds up sufficient softening of the image. Or use Gaussian Blur with a very small amount.

Len Kaufman wrote on 9/12/2024, 7:02 PM

Thanks for your reply @EricLNZ. The problem area is pretty much the entire frame, as I filled the frame with the dock, and in some parts, where there was also a building in the frame, the building had wood lattice that was also noisy. So which do you favor? Quick Blur or Gaussian. And what do you consider a small amount? .002 horizontal and .002 vertical? Of course I'll try both, but wondering which you consider more effective in this situation.

EricLNZ wrote on 9/12/2024, 9:10 PM

@Len Kaufman As it's the entire frame you need to work on it's going to be a compromise between softening the problem areas and not degrading the image too much. A lot will also depend on the source image size. So you need to play around to find the best compromise with either QuickBlur or Gaussian. With Gaussian and 1080 material I have used .0010 H&V for very slight softening but .0020 might suit your situation.

As an aside I've just discovered my Gaussian Blur custom presets created in VMS aren't opening correctly in VP21. They open with the Light Blur value of .0100 H&V. No problem as I've redone them and resaved the presets.

Len Kaufman wrote on 9/12/2024, 11:25 PM

Thank you for that update, @EricLNZ. I'll work on it tomorrow.

bitman wrote on 9/13/2024, 9:23 AM

@Len Kaufman moire is a bitch! I had issues in the past (albeit with a pan crop movement of a still photo) ref.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/moire-after-pan-crop-of-still--137767/

I just had an idea, it is maybe far fetched, but would AI not help? I was thinking of upscaling with AI and then downscaling again (and/or additionally cropping a bit) ...

Len Kaufman wrote on 9/13/2024, 9:39 AM

@bitman; @EricLNZ Thanks, I'll try your suggestion, @bitman. So far the best version seems to be the quick blur AND motion blur, both set to .25. I assume the motion blur is .25, as it doesn't seem to give me the option to set that separately when I view it with QuickBlur.

While it tames the dock quite a bit, it leaves something that looks more like graininess. I may try Neat Video on top of that.

mark-y wrote on 9/13/2024, 12:55 PM

Here's an old discussion, you may get some ideas.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/hd-to-sd-challenge--81415/#ca474519

Len Kaufman wrote on 9/13/2024, 1:09 PM

Thank you, @mark-y. I had read that before posting my original question. (Yes, I do search before asking.) As they were dealing with interlaced files, I thought it might be a different kinda' moire. Unless moire is moire. That's a moire.😎 That discussion brought up Sorensen Squeeze which is a program I used to use because the Internet was so slow. I seem to recall that Sorensen is somehow a part of Vegas Pro.

mark-y wrote on 9/13/2024, 3:31 PM

@Len Kaufman

You are correct that interlaced video presents a worst-case scenario for moire.

Can you upload a short original sample of yours to Drive or Dropbox?

Len Kaufman wrote on 9/13/2024, 3:39 PM

@mark-y The combination of quick blur and gaussian took the "curse" off them, and I sent them out. Strangely, I did one version where I sped up one of the clips by a lot, and it seemed the least noisey, though that version was not necessarily what was needed in this instance.

amendegw wrote on 9/13/2024, 6:30 PM

Here's an old discussion, you may get some ideas.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/hd-to-sd-challenge--81415/#ca474519

How 'bout that? My thread from 14 years ago. Took me down memory lane. Sorry none of those download links work any more. GoDaddy said I couldn't host videos on my website or provide zip files for download. They said they were going to cancel my account so I dropped them.

...Jerry

EricLNZ wrote on 9/13/2024, 8:00 PM

You are correct that interlaced video presents a worst-case scenario for moire.

Depends a lot on how you deinterlace. Vegas's Smart Adaptive Deinterlacing has made a big difference.

Another thought @Len Kaufman you don't mention your image sizes. If you are shooting 4K and downsizing to 1080 you may find it best to apply any blurring as a Media FX, not as a timeline Event FX.

mark-y wrote on 9/15/2024, 12:33 AM

Here's an old discussion, you may get some ideas.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/hd-to-sd-challenge--81415/#ca474519

How 'bout that? My thread from 14 years ago. Took me down memory lane. Sorry none of those download links work any more. GoDaddy said I couldn't host videos on my website or provide zip files for download. They said they were going to cancel my account so I dropped them.

...Jerry

@amendegw

Jerry, my memories of those days are often clearer than trying to remember if I bought milk yesterday.

I don't know if you've seen what's left of your Vegas-to-Youtube Megatutorial, when your website was named after Jazzy.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190501094000/http://www.jazzythedog.com/testing/dnxhd/Hd-guide.aspx

amendegw wrote on 9/15/2024, 4:19 AM

Jerry, my memories of those days are often clearer than trying to remember if I bought milk yesterday.

I don't know if you've seen what's left of your Vegas-to-Youtube Megatutorial, when your website was named after Jazzy.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190501094000/http://www.jazzythedog.com/testing/dnxhd/Hd-guide.aspx

@mark-y

Thanks for that link. Dang, has the art/science of video editing improved since then.

...Jerry

Len Kaufman wrote on 9/15/2024, 9:52 AM

Wow! Here is a compilation of many options to combat moire, with several of the major programs having built-in moire filters and also some after-market options. I have Neat Video, which I tried, but it softened the image too much for my taste. But I didn't fiddle with the settings. Though I've sent the clips out, I may go back and play with them some more. I'm sure I'll have this problem again.

https://www.hitpaw.com/video-tips/video-aliasing.html#p2

mark-y wrote on 9/15/2024, 11:02 AM

Thanks for that link. Dang, has the art/science of video editing improved since then.

...Jerry

The one remaining good link on that page still looks pretty darn good, and it's only 2Mbps. We were really into compression in those days, because internet bandwidth was so lousy.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190501094000im_/http://www.jazzythedog.com/testing/dnxhd/Version4-2Mbps.mp4