farss

I've heard (rumour and inuendo) that +R is more compatible with set-tops. I'm currently using a Plextor PX-712A that burns both... and am struggling with the question as to which is preferable.

From your post, I gather that you have found the opposite. Have you seen any studies supporting one over the other?

You pretty well answered your own question.
$49 versus $149. No brainer... unfortunately.
Betamax was a Sony exclusive I believe, so it's obvious you could get cheaper VHS machines because more companies were fighting for your $$$ on the VHS side. More companies selling VHS, so if you went to the video store, only a small section was reserved for betamax. What would you do when seeing only a small percentage of movies available for rent?
(Hey, remember that 33rpm record sized disc that movies would be available on? That never caught on at all. I rememeber watching Flashdance on one as the mother-in-law's car stereo was being installed.)
It's the almighty dollar!
I work in a machine shop and we often discuss how China is eating away at the manufacturing industry in North America, and hurting our shop directly. Yet the owner showed up one day with an engine hoist he'd bought at Costco. Only $200!! he says. Of course... Made in China. Wal*Mart imports (if I remember correctly from the news) 70% of it's goods from China. And they want to increase that percentage.
Huge companies are regularly laying-off emplyees to INCREASE profits. They already make a profit, but they want to make more.
Only 100 years ago, we took turns building each other's barns.
Common sense has gone out the window to be replaced by dollar sense.

So to answer your question... Most will buy that 88¢ painting. Very few will make the trip.
Why? The $$$ rules!
If the DVD-R is next to the DVD+R on the shelf, and $2 cheaper...

Mario

Yes,
but they were done some time ago. Results back then were 70% for +R and 80% for -R. One issue is that Philips relaxed the spec for the location of the TOC and my Sony burner therefore burns the TOC on +R media on a part of the media some players cannot read, good one eh?
A far bigger issue to get worried about is 8x media, I'm going to stock up on 4x media as I'd like my DVDs to last more than a few years.
Bob.

Joe consumer has a simple mind. If the HD-DVD movie disc sells for $10.00 and has the same quality as the BluRay DVD movie disc that sells for $11.00 he will by the HD-DVD disc. If the HD DVD player sells for $300.00 and the BluRay player sells for $325.00 he will buy the HD-DVD player. It's already in the can. Done deal. BluRay looses. This synopsis brought to you by one of America's greatest predicters, who once predicted in 1976 that digital would never make it because it's too slow. JJK

JJK

But you forgot to mention that both the DVD-R and the DVD+R are both probably made in China!

Don't know if you're statement is meant to be a sarcastic remark to my post, but I was answering the original post... which was
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When the PC came out in the 80's we had CPM a robust O.S. that sold for 149.00, where PC-DOS sold for 49.00, so without exception we bought quick and Dirty and cheap.

Please explain this so I might understand the idea's that cause these issues to dominate an areana of art, that we all are so involved.

If Wal-Mart had a painting for .88 cents would we buy it instead of taking that money and spending on a bus ride to view a Jackson Pollack work?


These are things I wish to know.
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Sorry if you figured my reply was misplaced.

Mario

Judging from previous action on this forum you have a very long way to go before someone gets upset.

JJK

What you are struggling with is the concept of "good enough" vs. better, and that's all marketing stuff. If a customer will not pay for extra technology, performance, or features, then those things cease to become a competitive advantage. In the video case, the market valued the extended recording time of VHS more than the super quality of beta.

I tent to agree with mnost of the responses but I also tend to feel that, at least here in the US, it has been "taught" that "cheap" is "cheap" so just as many who want to buy "cheap" want to buy "expensive" simply because "if it costs more it must be better." And that is not true - look a Vegas as an example.

I think with the whole VHS / Beta deal it was just the shear volume of what was out there that ultimatly made the beta death happen. I can say the same for Amiga. Laserdisk stuck around for a long while because of very die hard group of fans who held onto the concept that "expensive is better" and these were people who loved laserdisk because they also had the high end gear to show it on. DVD started off a bit slow but look at how they have caught on - and overall killed off VHS as far a rental/buying goes. If I walked into almost any rental store of any store that carried pre-recorded movies I would see very few, if any, VHS videos...and if I was looking to see what format I shoudl put out it clearly wouldn't be VHS. Same goes back to Beta...very few beta was out there towards the end even thugh a few studios promised they would put out at least 500 - 1,000 beta versions of each release. Some took pre-orders and only made that amount. Laserdisks latched onto the whole "Critereon" concept to keep the intrest.

Having said all that - I love the little special editions that come out. yes the "superbit" versions are better but they don't have all the cool extras...which really is a seller to me more than quality. Now before someone jumps on me for that - for those who have the money and can build a very expensive home theatres with the line doublers and the THX amps and so on than clearly high end is better because it will be more noticable if it isn't. While I want to go that route, and always have, I currently look for the best deals on gear that will give me what I need now. This is why I got a cheap Cyberhome DVD player last year - and in this case "cheap" is pretty amazing with 720p output, PAL / NTSC playback (region free with a factory set up code), Digital output and also plays MP3s.

These days "Cheap" doesn't mean it is bad, part of that is because there is more "good" out there that drives prices down and competition up. Unless you are talking about a company like MS who more or less has a monopoly and can charge whatever they want. But again like the VHS / Beta wars, it doesn't make it the best out there because it is the most popular.

I've often thought that politicians should be required to take a college course in Economics before they are allowed to run for office. A lot of this stuff is just supply-and-demand.

As I understand it, Beta was a slightly better technology than VHS. Sony developed Beta, and refused to allow Japan Victor and others to license it. Victor developed VHS, and made it different from Beta in one critical way--it made the box slightly bigger, so it could hold more tape. That's because by the time Victor did their development work it was becoming more clear that one major use for videotape cassettes was going to be the recording of 2-hour feature films. The Beta cartridge couldn't do 2 hours, so Victor made sure VHS could. Victor also licensed the technology to anyone williing to abide by the terms, so VHS quickly got more floorspace and mindshare.

As for the notion that China is going to clean everyone's clock, all I can say is, "Well, Duh." China and India are cranking out highly-educated youth who are willing to work for a fraction of what it costs to hire someone in the US or Europe. I just read that McDonalds has determined that it will be cheaper to eliminate the employee that takes the order in the drive-through lane and offshore that function to places like India. That person, in turn, will relay the written order back to the local McDonalds workers who will fulfill the order.

In my view, such changes are inevitable and you can't blame the company. After all, its first obligation is to the stockholders who invested in the company and want to see a return on their money.

There was a talk radio host on the air yesterday who was screaming about how Northwest Airlines was firing hundreds of mechanics. The reason?--they were starting to do all their annual inspections overseas, in Malaysia, I think. The radio guy was fuming about how it costs $25,000 in fuel to fly the plane over there, and that clearly this was an attempt to bust the mechanics union here in the States. Had he dug a little deeper he probably would have discovered that, yes, it costs $25,000 to fly the plane to Malaysia, but the cost for an annual inspection over there would be $500k versus $1million here in Seattle. Assuming the mechanics over there were certified to the same standards, OF COURSE you would have the work done there.

Wait a minute--what does this have to do with Vegas editing? Hmmm...sorry for the rant.

Getting back to a topic a bit closer to the original post, I have read that the -R version is significantly more compatible with the universe of DVD players than +R, though that difference will fade away as newer players are purchased. I think the LeBarge article a couple of years ago said 95% versus 85% compatibility, so both numbers should be higher (and closer together) by now.

Great answers,
Yes the dollar rules, $0.88 cents wins over the better model.
Ok, what should I look for in a 1 to 3 burner, and more important what should I avoid?
If I get a burner that uses DL then what about 8x?

What's the answer?
Thanks
Marty

Mario
I liked your response more than any I read, I don't know how to explain some pathology that runs rampant on the fourm.
Best Wishes,
marty