Big Problem

XLA wrote on 10/20/2008, 8:06 AM

I just left a 1920x1080 project render and print onto HDV tape over night to find out that (after finding out that my computer was on power save and stopping ) that 1) it rendered text out of the frame (luckily I hit don't delete file after printed to tape to take a look only at the intro) 2) the glow effect applied is flickering on and off.

What I've noticed..the generated media text was one of the only elements that was set to PAR 1 where my project was 1.333 and once I changed it from 1 to 1.333, the text did in fact fall out of frame. My first worry was that it may have rendered it to 1440 instead of 1920 and the thought of that gave me shivers as I spent days making sure everything was 1920 1.33.

I have done a test before of the whole clip at 2x less the frame size and rendered a 960x540 avi using x.264 /Mp4 codec and never had nor problem 1) or 2). Its this m2t format for tape that is scaring me.

I've noticed 2) a while back when trying to use protitlers horizontal and vertical effects on text. I am testing the intro using YUH Sony codec at 1920 to see if it at least corrected the text clipping problem, but I'm concerned also with my effects.

Your comments would be most helpful, thx,
XLA

Comments

XLA wrote on 10/20/2008, 8:25 AM

note: could the flicker from my glow effect have something to do with my field order ? It is set to none progressive scan ??

blink3times wrote on 10/20/2008, 9:29 AM

Sorry.... I'm not following this at all.

The hdv STANDARD is 1440x1080, pixels 1.33.... while full HD (HD1 and HD2 as some people refer to it) is 1920x1080, pixels 1.0

I'm not sure how you can even print back to hdv tape (for an HDV cam) at 1920x1080??

I don't normally print back to tape so I don't know much about it, but it seems to me (and this is a guess) that if you render out your HDV work at 1920 and then issue a print to tape command, then your work will simply be re rendered again over to 1440.

XLA wrote on 10/20/2008, 11:13 AM

Thanks. I didn`t know that (sadly admitting :S)

Simply put, how would you print a Full HD project onto BetaCam SP ??

XLA

farss wrote on 10/20/2008, 12:16 PM

"Simply put, how would you print a Full HD project onto BetaCam SP ??"

BetaSP is strictly SD only. I don't know if it has the ability to carry a 16:9 flag. That shouldn't really be a problem so long as the tape is clearly marked 16:9, an orange sticker with "16:9" in big letters would suffice.

I'd render your project to the Sony YUV codec at 720x480 with a PAR set to Widescreen (1.33 from memory) first. Check that it all looks correct then from that file print to tape.
You'll need a Decklink / AJA card with component outputs to connect to the BetaSP deck unless you have one of the higher end SP decks that can record from SDI.

Bob.

XLA wrote on 10/20/2008, 12:34 PM

if i render it a 720x 480 it will chop off my extremities..does this mean i would need to reedit my project to fit a 720x480 frame ?

farss wrote on 10/20/2008, 1:15 PM

"if i render it a 720x 480 it will chop off my extremities..does this mean i would need to reedit my project to fit a 720x480 frame ?"

It shouldn't crop off anything if you render it in Widescreen 720 x 480.
Just try a few seconds of it.

Bob.

XLA wrote on 10/20/2008, 1:27 PM

I'll try it although i can't do it right away as i'm rendering a .mov with H264 for the web. But I thought Wide screen SD and HD werent the same ?

farss wrote on 10/20/2008, 1:30 PM

OK, just got a Vegas PC up, only the 7.0d one as the 8.0 one is capturing.

When you render to the Sony YUV codec you want 720x486, Pixel Aspect Ratio you want is 1.2121, the rest just standard NTSC DV.

Only thing I'm not 100% certain is if it should be 720x480 or 720x486. Maybe someone from NTSC land can chime in.

Bob.

farss wrote on 10/20/2008, 1:35 PM

"But I thought Wide screen SD and HD werent the same ? "

No they're not but Vegas will render from one to the other. The Screen Aspect Ratio is slightly different, the Pixel Aspect Ratio is quite different. However so long as the numbers are set correctly the the source and output format Vegas will take care of it.
You need to render at Best and if your material is interlaced you need to specify a de-interlace method in the Project Properties or you'll get jaggies on motion. Also you need to tick the Check Box in the render dialogue that says "Strecth Video to fill output frame..."

Bob.

XLA wrote on 10/20/2008, 9:33 PM

I think I'll give it a try however not to sure about the 480 or 486 . On tv I often see very narrow video. I wonder why and how.

I'd love to know how to use the network computers to render option right now ..once I start this It'll take over 10 hours.

XLA wrote on 10/20/2008, 9:40 PM

what did you mean here by 1.33 from memory. Here you said 1.33 and further down 1.212 . I'm unclear on what I should do in the project properties vs what I should do in the render or should they be the same??

thx

farss wrote on 10/20/2008, 10:44 PM

Sorry,
yes that should be 1.212.
1.33 is the PAR for PAL SD Widescreen.

To state the obvious. Test, test and test again. You only need render 1 second to test all is working correctly. No point rendering for hours to then find out it's wrong.

You still haven't said what you're doing with the file after you render it.
Do you have a BetaSP deck?

Bob.

XLA wrote on 10/20/2008, 10:54 PM

I need to send it to BetaCam however I'll need to get it done at my local video store. I'll just hand them the DV tape and they can convert it..

You didn`t mention if this will be avi or m2t ??

farss wrote on 10/21/2008, 12:00 AM

"I'll just hand them the DV tape and they can convert it"

Oh! You'll loose quality doing that. If that's the road you must go down then just render to Widescreen NTSC DV as an AVI, standard Vegas preset. What you'll be rendering to is exactly the same as what'll be on the tape.

I was assuming you either:

a) Had a BetaSP VCR
b) Would sent a file on a HDD to a post house.

Bob.

XLA wrote on 10/21/2008, 9:25 AM

Ok I managed to send it to Tape (with loss i guess), and I sent it to be converted to BetaCam SP. They just called and said it looked squeezed and that they need it in letter box format ??

Not sure but does this mean I don`t tick stretch to fit frame ..??

rs170a wrote on 10/21/2008, 9:37 AM

I need to send it to BetaCam however I'll need to get it done at my local video store.

Are you sure about this?
I'd be very surprised if any "local video store" had a BetaCam deck.
Can you give a make & model # of this deck?

Mike

XLA wrote on 10/21/2008, 10:00 AM

sorry I meant Video Equipment Rental Store...I'm not talking Blockbuster here !

farss wrote on 10/21/2008, 1:05 PM

"They just called and said it looked squeezed and that they need it in letter box format ??"

Yes it will looked squeezed unless they look at it on a 16:9 monitor / TV. This gives them all the options without loosing any vertical resolution. However maybe they cannot cope with that, bit of a pity.

To make it letterboxed just render from your HDV project to NTSC DV and then print that to tape.

"Not sure but does this mean I don`t tick stretch to fit frame ..?? "

Yes, don't tick that box. Just render a small section and check first. You should have black bars top and bottom and none at the sides.

Bob.

rs170a wrote on 10/21/2008, 2:33 PM

Only thing I'm not 100% certain is if it should be 720x480 or 720x486. Maybe someone from NTSC land can chime in.

In theory, it should be 720x486 as that's the broadcast standard (i.e. what BetaCam expects) as opposed to the miniDV standard.
The good news is that, if you choose the NTSC SD YUV template, it defaults to that exact frame size.
You'll have to change the PAR though as it defaults to 0.9091.
edit: it's the same in 7.0d and 8.0c.

Mike

farss wrote on 10/21/2008, 5:44 PM

Think you're right, problem is I'd assumed XLA was printing to SP from Vegas. As it turns out he'd printing to DV and having a post house dub from that to SP.

Actually if he could find a post house with the right VCR he could give them a HDV tape. From that they could have the VCR downconvert to SD and feed that via component into the SP VCR, that'd give the best possible quality BetaSP.

Bob.

XLA wrote on 10/22/2008, 8:14 AM

I think I'll try that now that I've got another full week to resubmit.

So I'll simply use the NTSC SD YUV template and change the PAR to 1.2121 right ?

thx Mike

XLA wrote on 10/22/2008, 8:16 AM

Yes Bob as a matter of fact it was to HDV but will this make much of a difference if I'm rendering NTSC anyway ?

thanks again !

XLA wrote on 10/22/2008, 8:43 PM

Ok so i realize ppl might have lost interest in this thread but Now I think I know what I'm doing.

I'll simply render the whole project the way it was meant to be rendered in HDV. Once complete, I simply import the file into an NTSC SD project and send that to DV. For some reason I couldn`t send it to HDV from the source project or when it did it simply printed blank time on my tape. Only thing is after having done a test and looking through the cams viewfinder, I see a square frame but not necessarily obvious black bars top and bottom..however in the project video preview window it appeared with bars top and bottom..so because the guy at the post house said "LETTERBOX only Please" I feel obliged to deliver nothing but 4:3 in DV. I'm still concerned about why my HDV Tape isn`t receiving anything but hey can`t know entirely what I'm doing !

Ok well off to render this thing
XLA

XLA wrote on 10/22/2008, 9:15 PM

don`t you just love it when this happens:

Sony Vegas Pro 8.0
Version 8.0c (Build 260)
Exception 0xC0000005 (access violation) READ:0x0 IP:0x69BCD3
In Module 'vegas80.exe' at Address 0x400000 + 0x29BCD3
Thread: ProgMan ID=0x1450 Stack=0x62CF000-0x62D0000
Registers:
EAX=00000000 CS=001b EIP=0069bcd3 EFLGS=00210202
EBX=03432e28 SS=0023 ESP=062cf950 EBP=000000b1
ECX=2edbd180 DS=0023 ESI=249b6aa8 FS=003b
EDX=77469a94 ES=0023 EDI=002e6420 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
0069BCD3: 8B 10 8B 71 10 6A 01 FF ...q.j..
0069BCDB: D2 85 F6 8B CE 75 EF 5E .....u.^
Stack Dump:
062CF950: 249B6AA8 24340000 + 676AA8
062CF954: 00000009
062CF958: 00691C9E 00400000 + 291C9E (vegas80.exe)
062CF95C: 056E1D40 05600000 + E1D40
062CF960: 00000000
062CF964: 062CFA20 061D0000 + FFA20
062CF968: 175EBCA8 17530000 + BBCA8
062CF96C: 00692F9E 00400000 + 292F9E (vegas80.exe)
062CF970: 056E1D40 05600000 + E1D40
062CF974: 05674FD8 05600000 + 74FD8
062CF978: 05675300 05600000 + 75300
062CF97C: 00230000 00230000 + 0
062CF980: 002338C8 00230000 + 38C8
062CF984: 2F1F2010 2EF30000 + 2C2010
062CF988: 002338C8 00230000 + 38C8
062CF98C: 00000088
> 062CF998: 5400D480 538A0000 + 76D480 (PresentationCore.ni.dll)
> 062CF9B4: 0067CC71 00400000 + 27CC71 (vegas80.exe)
062CF9B8: 056E1D40 05600000 + E1D40
062CF9BC: 00000001
062CF9C0: 00000000
062CF9C4: 05674FD8 05600000 + 74FD8
> 062CF9E0: 77419834 77410000 + 9834 (ntdll.dll)
> 062CF9E4: 77448329 77410000 + 38329 (ntdll.dll)
> 062CFA00: 0078BD99 00400000 + 38BD99 (vegas80.exe)
062CFA04: 05674FD8 05600000 + 74FD8
062CFA08: 00000009
> 062CFA0C: 00AE2D34 00400000 + 6E2D34 (vegas80.exe)
062CFA10: 00000000
062CFA14: FFFFFFFF
062CFA18: 00000000
062CFA1C: 3FF00000 3F7A0000 + 760000
> 062CFA24: 0067D076 00400000 + 27D076 (vegas80.exe)
- - -
062CFFF0: 00000000
062CFFF4: 00527950 00400000 + 127950 (vegas80.exe)
062CFFF8: 00AE7AB0 00400000 + 6E7AB0 (vegas80.exe)
062CFFFC: 00000000