Big problems with Vegas + HDV + CineForm

Sunfox wrote on 1/17/2005, 11:59 PM

I'm currently evaluating the demo version of Connect HD, and I'm having a rather big problem. It captures HDV video fine, and Vegas 5.0d initially works with it fine, but after a while it'll suddenly start giving

"An error occurred while starting playback. The device specified is in use."

errors when I try to play back. Now, this error will stop *all* timeline playback, but seems to be triggered by rapid accessing of the HDV codec. For instance, I can start up Vegas and then have it refresh the thumbnails in the Media Pool and after 20 or 30 they'll stop updating and i'll get the error if I try to play any files back. If I don't update the thumbnails everything will work for 10 or so minutes until eventually working up to the same error.

However, while this is occuring Vegas will still keep some previews active, for instance dragging the cursor through video on the timeline or in the trimmer. Usually (but not always) if I shut down Vegas and start it up again it'll will work for a while, or sometimes if I wait long enough it'll suddently start working again all on its own.

Any thoughts as to what is causing this?

Edit: I should probably mention that I have *zero* trouble with editing standard DV AVI files...

Comments

JJKizak wrote on 1/18/2005, 6:10 AM

Sounds to me like your running out of memory. The first thing vegas does is start to blank the thumbnails then cut the viewer.

JJK

Spot|DSE wrote on 1/18/2005, 6:14 AM

1. How much RAM do you have enabled?
2. If it's low, try turning off thumbnail preview
3. In the event of 1 & 2, back off the zoom.

How fast is your machine?
What level of encode did you use when creating the intermediary? Low, Medium, or High?

mdopp wrote on 1/18/2005, 11:01 AM

I am using Connect HD and Vegas 5.0 for more than two weeks now without any of the problems you describe. Do you have the latest version of Connect HD ? Do you have Service Pack 2 installed ?
Martin

Sunfox wrote on 1/18/2005, 2:59 PM

Answers are "yes" and "no"...

Sunfox wrote on 1/18/2005, 3:05 PM

I have 1gb memory... currently 512mb of that is set for dynamic RAM preview. It's a P4 3.2GHz.

I used "Medium" quality when capturing.

I've tried switching my Media Pool view from Thumbnail to List, which has no thumbnails, and alas the problem still came back, it just took a little longer (and of course was a lot less convenient).

Sigh...

Spot|DSE wrote on 1/18/2005, 3:06 PM

I'd be calling Thad at Cineform. I've been editing with Cineform in various formats for over a year, none of the issues you're describing.
The message you're seeing often relates to soundcards, but I can't imagine that being the case here, unless you're using an older 44.1 Creative card and you're simply out of buffer.

Sunfox wrote on 1/18/2005, 3:16 PM

SB Audigy 2 here...

A few other symptoms: about twice after the problem began I could get it to play back sound but no picture (preview is just black). Also several times I could get it to play with sound and picture, but it would automatically stop after about a half second no matter where I was on the timeline (even if there was no video). I wish the error was more specific as to *what* device was in use.

I think I'm likely SOL with HDV for now. What I'm likely going to have to do to troubleshoot is do a clean reinstall of Windows XP Pro (the installation *is* two-and-a-half years old), but for my PC that involves a *lot* of work that I just can't do right now.

Spot|DSE wrote on 1/18/2005, 3:29 PM

What is your hardware config?

Sunfox wrote on 1/18/2005, 4:18 PM

You mean PC wise?

Intel P4 3.2Ghz 800Mhz
Intel D875PBZ motherboard
1gb Corsair DDR400 memory
ATI All-In-Wonder 9800 Pro
160GB Seagate 7200.7 SATA x 2
SB Audigy 2
Tekram USCSI (for Polaroid slide scanner / DVD-ROM)
TDK 4X IDE DVD-RW

Spot|DSE wrote on 1/18/2005, 4:22 PM

Yup, I'd definitely be calling Thad at Cineform. What you are experiencing definitely isn't normal, and your machine is clearly up to spec, assuming nothing is wrong with registry, HDD, etc.

JJKizak wrote on 1/18/2005, 4:52 PM

I have the same motherboard you have and the same processor but with 2 gig ram. How big is the HDV file you are editing? Keep in mind these facts: This motherboard only likes a certain kind (brand) of memory; the processor runs real hot when pushed which made me go to a 6000 rpm fan; (!31F during render in hyperthreading) and mine constantly runs out of memory even during playback of a 1.5 hr clip.
Hit your CTRL ALT DEL and view the memory usuage on one monitor as you use V5 with the Cineform clip. . If the memory jumps up to about 500meg and stops you are running out of memory during your operations. This motherboard has a lot of memory problems and the sound card (creative) will leak through somehow and its a know defect.
I can't wait to junk mine. Also make sure you have the latest bios downloaded for that board. It is p-33.
On my board if I install 4 gig of ram only 3330 shows up in XP pro.and the timeline goes bananas with jumbled sound.

JJK

Kula_Gabe wrote on 1/18/2005, 6:12 PM

I have also had problems w/ Cineform HDV, Vegas and Memory. I was working on a short and could import and editing the whole piece in a single veg. If my project got up past 3 or 4 minutes Vegas would eat all of my ram, and virtual memory, then lock up. I ended up editing scene by scene and assebling them in the end.

I have yet to try again since purchasing Cineform, and upgrading do 5 d. Hopefully these problems are gone. Please let us know if you find a solution.

Sunfox wrote on 1/18/2005, 7:06 PM

All in all there's about 93 gigabytes of HDV video (2.5 hours), but of course I haven't managed to get more than a few seconds of it onto the timeline.

I'm not having a heat problem... could be memory.

The 4gb installed / 3.3gb available thing is a limitation of the 875P chipset (apparantly it can only address a total of 4gb for *everything*, so after all non-system memory related registries are created that only leaves 3.3gb for RAM).

Sunfox wrote on 1/18/2005, 7:23 PM

Hmm, I never thought to check out memory usage since I figured this was a codec fault.

Before loading Vegas: 757mb real free / 231mb pagefile used
Loading Vegas: 727mb real free / 270mb pagefile used
Loading HDV project: 241mb real free / 1.78gb pagefile used (!!!)
Let it create thumbnails until it stops: 72mb real free / 1.96gb pagefile used

So it *is* running out of memory - and creating a 2 gigabyte pagefile (which is the hard limit on this system). If I manage to clear up a bit of memory, by say shutting down another program, it'll create a few more thumbnails and suck up all available memory.

Now, if I load the SD version of my project - which has the same number of files (obviously smaller) and minutes of footage, it leaves 595mb free real memory and only creates a 354mb pagefile.

Is this perhaps not actually a codec problem? Why is it using close to 3 gigabytes of memory to merely initialize files?

rmack350 wrote on 1/18/2005, 10:04 PM

Actually, that's a limitation of any 32bit system. The pool of addresses is finite and hardware addresses get assigned from the top of the pool down-just where the addresses for that last 3/4 gig would be.

Nobody was trying to use 4 GB except for database servers so the limitation hasn't gotten widespread attention.

Rob Mack

JJKizak wrote on 1/19/2005, 5:37 AM

All I know is my next motherboard should handle 8 gig of memory to handle the Hi-Def stuff and large still pictures. Your 2.5 hour clip is a definite "choke". Blur's, Composites, and rolling titles also suck up memory.

JJK

IanJames wrote on 7/25/2005, 8:32 AM

I have nearly EXACTLY the same problems. I'm running 2gigs of RAM and have had a tech run every test imaginable on my system.
I work around the problem by changing the SOUND DEVICE selection and back and forth till Vegas decides to reset itself.
I'm trying the demo of Vegas6 and I still get the freezing.

ForumAdmin wrote on 7/25/2005, 10:08 AM

Vegas 6 (current version is 6.0b) has some significant memory handling optimizations that were developed specifically for the Cineform codec. If you are using Cineform encoded .avi files (aka HDV intermediates) and Vegas 6.0b, you should be able to use a nearly unlimited number of separate HDV/Cineform files on the timeline or have them open in the project media list. This is not true with previous versions of Vegas (5,4 etc)- the memory optimizations described above are not present in those earlier versions.

IanJames wrote on 7/25/2005, 10:11 AM

Things are definately much better with 6, but I still get the device in use errors. It seems clear that this is an audio device, driver, something conflict - how do we solve it? I have the latest drivers for everything involved, a bios update, everything... ??

MH_Stevens wrote on 7/25/2005, 10:18 AM

Didn't see a reference to your CineForm version. Are you running 1.8? You should be. Also I suggest you get the Vegas6 trial and try with that - I think you'll want to go buy it.

Mike Stevens

IanJames wrote on 7/25/2005, 10:27 AM

using 1.8
everything is up to snuff - but the problem still presents itself

MH_Stevens wrote on 7/25/2005, 12:04 PM

Just read your original post again. Much like what you would expect with some bad memory chips. Test and defrag your RAM. If using dual ram chips are they identical? Have you defraged your HD? Very fragmented files can do things like this. If your HD is very fragmented CineForm may have to split the capture up to fit it in, same with the clips in your project.