I know that, I used pricewatch for years. Its the sites LINKED to that you have to be careful about... just like you have to be careful when you go to EBay.

> Billy: PriceWatch.com is not a a site that sells anything.

Yes, and if you read BillyBoy's post carefully, it is quite obvious he knows this. You should also be aware that some of the sites listed on pricewatch.com are crooks. This has no refection on pricewatch; they just report the prices.

> If you check out the site, you'll see that a majority of the companies are very reputable.

Yes, but they’re not the ones with the lowest prices. ;-)

What Billy was trying to tell you was that you can get burned big time by companies that lowball the price, charge your credit card, and then call you to tell you the item they reported in stock is no longer in stock but another product which costs $100 more or is of lesser value for the same price is in stock. It’s called “bate and switch” and despite the fact that it’s illegal, the practice is alive and well and thriving on Internet ecommerce sites. Just be careful of who you buy from.

Check out www.resellerratings.com for consumer reviews of internet vendors. This site has saved me from buying from these low-ballers more than a few times. You will be shocked by some of the horror stories you’ll read there. Don’t forget to join and post your own ratings of vendors you’ve dealt with.

~jr

I've been using pricewatch for a couple years and foundsome good sellers that have honered their claims: www.computergeeks.com and www.upgrade-solution.com. I had a HD I bought from them go bad (well, my boss bought it. the cheapest 80gb one he could get) and didn't even have to call for an rma! Just went to their RMA site, printed ou the form, filled it out, sent it in with bad HD, and get new one in mail for no cost! :)

Lucky I haven't gotten the "bate and switch" pulled on me. Hopefully I never will.

You know what got me all hot and bothered? My bank that I've had the credit card with I used for the purchase I had for over 20 years with near a six figure credit line, built up over the years so I guess I was a pretty good customer. They wouldn't go to bat for me, not so much as lift a finger. It boiled down to lip service. Oh we're sorry, you need to fill out a form. At best all they do is suspend the interest charges. Did the merchant get fined, punished by his bank or Visa? No. Did the merchant's bank revoke his right to accept credit card orders? No. That made me mader still. I even complained to Visa directly, sent them the damning evidence that showed they engaged in fraud. For my trouble I got another form letter back.

Nobody would do a damn thing and it dragged on and on for a couple months. All I got for my trouble was the run around. Don't get mad, get even. I wrote a letter to the merchant's Attorney General. They shut them down after a three month invegisation that showed what they did to me they did to thousands of customers for almost a year.

This "merchant" turned out to be some guy running his "business" out of his garage. He has hardly nothing in stock but anything you ordered they claimed was in stock. There is a FTC (Federal Trade Commission) rule that says you can't charge a credit card until the merchandise is shipped. I know that's true, I once had a small mail order business myself. Oh well. Live and learn. Anybody can get fooled.

FWIW...

I've used pricewatch for yaers. The following vendors have sold me 1000's of dollars worth of stuff without any problem.

NEWEGG(one of the absolute best, even on no questuions asked RMA's)
Multiwave Direct
Comp-u-plus

To I Need Help:

Pricewatch like other search engines are spammed constantly by vendors, the politics of which are not worth getting into.

My recommendation to you is to post the name of a potential vendor here and on a few other forums such as DV.com or 2-pop.com and ask about buyer's experience.

The second recommendation is to check here:

www.resellerratings.com

A third way is to get a map of the New York City metropolitan area and draw a 50 mile radius around Manhattan and see if any of them fall within that area and don't buy from them.
Exceptions: B&H Photo/Video, Armatos, and Profeel.

John

FWIW, In the US if you purchase by credit card out of state, you have additional protections -> you can cancel the payment and such without too many questions asked by the bank, & it's up to the seller to prove they deserve payment.

On the downside, if you use one of the popular debit cards, even those combined with charge cards like mastercard and visa, from what I've read you don't have the protection that comes with a credit card, i.e.: they don't have the $50 limit or anything on fraud etc. so they can empty your account and your out the money!

Shopping online, there are more then a few sites where they rate the seller... E-cost, a part of PC-Mall if I recall, is a favorite of mine, but they have a lousy rep when/if you buy something not in stock at the time of purchase.

Generally speaking, most of the tips I've ever read boil down to several points... Look for a physical address for the company on their site. Watch out for sites where several competitors (?) are housed at the same address. Look for BBB and similar logos, though of course verisign doesn't mean that much IMO. Read the return and exchange policies carefully. Remember that every site/online retailor can change overnight - I've gotten burned a few times by formerly reputable companies that changed policies (Tiger was an example several years ago). Realize that it's at the least *likely* that many comparison sites are funded by the companies listed, so please take their merchant ratings with a grain of salt.

Personally, like Googlegear, Newegg, Compuplus, ComputerGeeks, Outpost, e-cost, & have tried Atacom & DV-Century with decent results so far. Have used CDW for years. Something often overlooked, the big office supply chains often have online coupons (dealnews.com), that when combined with sale prices and free delivery are hard to beat, especially when you can return purchases down the street.

Actually, in my experience anyways, it was exactly the reverse. My bank, one of the largest in the credit card business would not remove the charges from my account until I offered poof and only after they followed up and got the merchant's side of the story which this clown changed several times. He had lots of practice. So a couple months down the road before it was resolved.

My point in passing on my experience is two fold. Be careful who you buy from and if something goes wrong, be prepared to see a darker side of the bank you do business with.

I guess looking back and trying to be more objective you can see their view. The merchant originally claimed the merchandise was shipped. A lie. I'm forced with trying to prove a negative... that I didn't receive the merchandise and it never was shipped. Doable, but time consuming. Meanwhile and the reason this kind of fraud is done, the merchant's bank has PAID the merchant. That's the scam. Sure the guy knows sooner or later he'll after to reverse the charges. But if he does it to thousands of people, (apparently he did) then he has use of all that money until he's forced to give it back.

Visa, MasterCard won't get involved. They push it back to the local issuing bank. Now the interesting part is if the merchant is clearly lying, then he's trying to sell a bunch of bull to his bank. Sooner or later it all comes crashing down because the consumer defrauded will probably satisify his bank, the charges on your statement go away and your bank tells the merchant's bank who in turn reverse the money they paid him.

They wouldn't give me a lot of details, but the company was located in Texas, and like I said I wrote the Attorney General office in that state and in time they closed them down. I doubt the guy did any jail time, and he got to profit from the 'float' from getting all the money for merchandiise sold never shipping until it hit the fan and he got closed down.

Thankfully again, while time consuming they couldn't provide any tracking information from Fed-X, because of course they never shipped anything. On the surface it would look like me (the consumer) was trying to pull a fast one.

Don't misread what I said. My action didn't close this guy down, apparently I was one of the last to get taken and the Texas AG was already aware of this scam and may have had a sting operation going.

>>Have used CDW for years

I live not too, too far from CDW and have bought from them on a number of occasions.

They are absolutely first-class in service/returns.

CDW even has a funny commerical on TV now. I think CDW is one of the largest mail order joints. In fact I use to go to their main location some years back, they had a small retail space too in front of the warehouse. I remember it is (or was) in of the Northwest suburbs of Chicago, I forget, where exactly. Living in Naperville, long ride, much further South so haven't been there for a long time.

"Actually, in my experience anyways, it was exactly the reverse. "

If it helps at all for future reference or whatever...

It's the law, involves interstate commerce I think... When I've done it with BOFA, BankOne, & several that are now merged, I just wrote them a formal letter, stating that the seller had not delivered on the promised goods &/or services, and that as per the reg.s I was formally asking them to withhold payment. They'd send back a letter saying they'd stopped payment to whomever, were investigating the charges, and had contacted the seller to tell them what was going on. The seller would always be in touch very quickly, as they really are on weak ground, have to prove that everything was cool, and that's not always easy, even if you're in the right - been in that position too, and just the court time wasn't always worth it.

Not that any of the banks like doing it, as it's not only extra work, but the merchants really are prime clients, paying a surcharge to the bank every time they charge your credit card.

As you wrote BillyBoy, best thing is to be careful where you do business, and who with. And yeah, with few exceptions Banks are not your friends, in most any circumstance.

At any rate, hopng it might help someone, once things are a problem... Guess the best advice I can give personally is to be the seller's worst nightmare... Be a *nice* person, totally committed and convinced that justice will prevail, and present yourself as having the commitment to follow it through with every detail, reg., & courtesy adhered to -> the Supreme Pain in the A__ every retailer dreads.

Stuff I've done that generally works: Log everything - courts & judges love it, giving it undo wieght, and everyone in a potential hot seat knows it. Use your log to quote times and dates every chance you get dealing with banks, merchants etc... Do complain to the BBB, Aty Gen etc, but realize that once you do, a lot of merchants feel they have less to lose, so the threat, especially citing regs and stuff, can get you more results then the actual action - once you've complained, the damage is done, so there's often no incentive for the merchant to potentially lose anything more over it.

Acting as if you know the regs in a genreal way can often help - most folks don't, and aren't willing to learn, and that can include your opponent in this sort of case. Beware of citing specifics re: regs though, even if you're absolutely certain, as this gives the merchant a target, something to focus the argument on rather then where it belongs.

Inundate whomever with as many forms of communications as possible. Fax them a letter, then mail it as confirmation, maybe including a copy of the fax and fax log. Senseless waste of paper, but they have to deal with each one, plus the e-mail you sent confirming both, that sort of thing. And if you have the time, do it for any excuse - also like to do this thanking them for something minor they may have done, like called back and/or said they'd look into it... They can see the future paperwork coming and want to get rid of you, make you stop!

In many situations, the person in charge hates to get involved in every day operations stuff... A professional looking letter (letterhead on envelope too if poss) will often reach CEOs, Presidents, and VPs, and their names and biz addresses are easy to find on-line. A courteous, polite letter explaining your point of view can sometimes work real wonders.

Perhaps most importantly, always maintain a cheerful attitude, certain that you're right, and that whomever is more then willing to help, actually wants to help because they're such a nice person. Psychologically, this is really hard for/on a lot of people on the other side of the fence, the merchants and those that work for them - to not help means saying to themselves that they are not nice, so tying helping and nice together can work. Give someone the excuse to really hate you by behaving badly, and they can morally write you off as a jerk in their own minds. Don't give them that excuse, turn the tables, force them to be the one's behaving badly.

Again, just hope this sort of stuff might help if heaven forbid anyone finds themselves in a bad situation. My personal best, FWIW, was returning a new car.

Even looking for the BBB logo or calling a field office to inquire is a waste of time. The BBB is a figurehead organization that has no real power if a dispute arises. All they are going to tell you is if complaints have been filed against a certain company: Thats if claims were even filed (a lot of times they are not), They use the correct spelling when searching the database, the company doesnt use more than one name or division, etc...

YOu will still have to file a complaint with that STATES Attorney General where the company is located if youve been swindled. Then its just a paperwork process which will probably leave you unsatisified even if you do "win." Then the company a few years down the road can open up the same type of company under a different name and start the process all over again.

To be honest, i have no idea why the BBB exsists at all. They cant enforce anything nor do they enact any type of State statutes or Accepted Practices that protect consumers. All they add is a false sense of security if you dont find anything negative about a company. The same goes for Verisign or any other type of "consumer agency" that deems a company reputable.

"The BBB is a figurehead organization that has no real power if a dispute arises. "

True, especially the online organization, but if a merchant cares enough to try, I'd rate them over one who doesn't give a s__. And there are folks who check with the BBB before any purchase, which is the idea behind it - if one complains, may save the next and cost the merchant money.

Alas, don't think there is anything sure fire anymore, any merchant who will do the right thing 100% of the time. K-Mart I think started the trend of a retailer that offered no questions returns, and it spread from there. To do it, they opened themselves up to all sorts of abuses and fraud, something now shared by most every merchant to some extent today. People still do tacky stuff like buy a bottle of whatever, empty it and refill with water, then return it, and that's on the minor end of the spectrum.

Guess what I'm saying is that even with the best of the breed, have to be somewhat prepared, expecting the occassional hassle 'cause from the merchant's and merchant's employee's point of view, they have to protect themselves to some extent or go out of biz.

The BBB's are for LOCAL merchants. Each community has their own. They still keep trying to get me to join ($$$) and I keep telling them I'm semi-retired and not interested. HEHEHE!

Online companies since they do their lion's share of business out of state, could care less. In other words, if you see a BBB sticker on a web site and you don't live in the same community... meaningless fluff.

Besides... its mostly fill out a form, we'll get back to ya, nonsense anyway.

Oh i forgot to mention, complaints filed with the Attorney General are handled in different tiers of priority. So Jane Consumer gets ripped off for $500. File under not important. Jane's Sister gets ripped off for $10,000. File under Pending Investigation.

The dollar amount and frequency in which the complaints occur garner the AG's attention within their respected states threshold. So if a company has 100's of $500 complaints, then the AG will probably pursue because the dollar amount is now $50,000. That not to say eventually your complaint wont be investigated, its just that your out $500 dollars for along period of time pending investigation that may not yield the attention you think it deserves.

A very special thanks, and appreciation, goes out to each of you who responded to this post. I've learned a lot, and you have all saved me from potentially getting ripped-off big time! ! !

Many, many thanks...

Tony

Anybody ever use www.pricegrabber.com ??? I use that one all the time as well, it has saved me lots of money when looking for the best price from a reputable merchant. They also have the ratings right next to each merchant so you can see how good or bad they are.

Thanks Jsnkc, I'll definately check it out.

I_Need_Help
Tony

I've used pricegrabber once. I don't use the ratings much though. I've found that people usually post negative feedback (on anything) because they are pissed off and don't usually leave more then "They didn't do what I wanted" kind of answer. When you get a product and it works, you don't bother leaving a positive responce because you're off enjoying your product!

Tony, don't be to frightned about buying from anyone on Pricewatch or Pricegrabber (mysimon is good too). If you keep on top of them (ie if they say it will be shipped tomorrow, and it isn't CALL THEM) you usually won't have problems. I haven't when I've done that. Just be wary of e-bay stuff. You don't really know what condition stuff is in when you buy it, and 99% of sellers have a "accept no returns" policy. And even if they do, and it arrives broken they could say "it broke on the mail, tough." That's why when buying always ship via UPS, FedEx, or AirEx. :)

To: TheHappyFriar: Thanks for the kind words on the other post, and for this info about PriceWatch, Pricegrabber, and mysimon. (I've never heard of "mysimon" before...I'll check them out!)

Thank you very, very much. Not only for your responses, but for making me feel welcome. It means a lot, in light of my recent adjustments to the Forum's "DOs & DON'Ts!"

One question: If I want to address a question to a particular person on the Forum, is there a proper way to go about it?

Again, many thanks! Take care,
Tony

is of course www.googlegear.com

I've spent several grand with them and and one accidental (thier website appears to be linked to their inv database--smart people) backorder item that arrived a day after the rest of the shipment.

I trust them, and sing praises to them.

Alliante, I too buy from them quite often, you're right their prices are great, and they are very reputable. Thanks for sharing...

Tony