"Save early, save often."
It is amazing how much angst this simple habit will save the aspiring editor.
Projects are cheap.

"problem is, none of the other NLEs are any better! "

Ever suspect that the problem may be in the common denominator - your PC?

The only limit on Vegas Pro is your computer. I am working on a project that is approaching 200 tracks, and I have worked on multi cam projects as long as 5-hours.

Without seeing the project there's not much way to tell if it's that project specifically or a general bug. When I had an issue with a generated event I sent them the exact project I was working on so they could see it. The bug I found is reproducible in both machines in my house on different Vegas versions of 10 on any project.

Project length doesn't matter, all that matters is how much memory you're using, in general. IE the first project I did in 100% HD was 7 minutes long. Vegas wouldn't get past rendering 25% of it. Turns out I was using so much FX that I used up the available RAM. A simple solution: render out the project in parts. I now have a general idea of what I can/can't do for some things based on my computer's limits (XP 32 & 4gb ram).

I'd suggest keeping Task Manager up so you can monitor the RAM usage. I'd also suggest posting a video of what you're doing and the project file. Maybe even change the folder name with all the footage and then open the project and don't replace it, leave it missing. See if it still has the same issues. I've done masks hundreds of times with no issues. That seems to be the last thing I've ever had issues with. :)

EDIT: I see you're using a Mac. Bootcamp (or simular)? That could be part of the issue.

Are all the questions you've been asking lately related? The Text vs Protype, lower thirds graphics, etc? I'm trying to picture in my head what the issue could be.

@Steve

Mac Pro Bootcamp W7 64 Bit

Component Details Subscore Base score
Processor Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X5365 @ 3.00GHz 7.7 5.9

Memory (RAM) 32.0 GB 7.7
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 6.8
Gaming graphics 4095 MB Total available graphics memory 6.8
Primary hard disk 442GB Free (621GB Total) 5.9
Windows 7 Ultimate

System
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Manufacturer Apple Computer, Inc.
Model MacPro2,1
Total amount of system memory 32.0 GB RAM
System type 64-bit operating system
Number of processor cores 8

Storage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total size of hard disk(s) 6053 GB
Disk partition (C:) 442 GB Free (621 GB Total)
Disk partition (D:) 294 GB Free (621 GB Total)
Media drive (E:) CD/DVD
Disk partition (F:) 872 GB Free (1397 GB Total)
Disk partition (G:) 1 MB Free (931 GB Total)
Disk partition (H:) 273 GB Free (466 GB Total)
Disk partition (I:) 56 GB Free (466 GB Total)
Disk partition (J:) 309 GB Free (466 GB Total)
Disk partition (K:) 373 GB Free (465 GB Total)
Disk partition (N:) 159 GB Free (621 GB Total)

Graphics
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Display adapter type NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Total available graphics memory 4095 MB
Dedicated graphics memory 512 MB

well i have a 5.9 rating in Windows 7 so pls tell me the machine to buy and i will consider it.

i am looking at either a new macpro or a new pc but my research has indicated a more powerful machine would do nothing for me in vegas (this was told to me by a guy who sells hot rod pcs) he said my only possible bottle neck is hard dive speed.

that said, i am open to feedback regarding machines that could beat my machine because I dont have time for these sorts of performance bugs and will upgrade if I am convinced.

@TheHappyFriar

yes its all more or less related. i rough cut the project and did not have any big problems doing basic cuts and trims. but i started to when I began what has essentially been stress testing the project BEFORE getting into deep with a loser workflow. my stress testing has been simply adding the extra tracks for graphics like I normally would and thats when I started having issues.

i dont see how it could be RAM if it involves vegas not opening. but last time I was watching my ram usage i was within the limits.

this project is a 3 camera HD Shoot with HDV and P2 and is 20 hours HD timeline . (which I will almost certainly have to section out into smaller lengths now).

in a perfect world, I would be able to do what I used on my SD projects, 3-6 camera shoots with long timelines even with heavy use of layered graphics and quite alot of audio plug-ins and audio tracks

so sure, it could be anything, I have been told the odd frame sizes and frame rates can choke vegas as well in big projects too.

but again, show me the machine that would not choke on this and I would buy it. (i really dont think there is one out there though!)

i have no prob posting the session with no associated media but dont know if that would be of any use.

i only see one hd with multiple partitions?

(forgive if i'm wrong, long time since i've done anything with a mac other than cursed ;-))

"vegas crashes at 10% upon launch"I don't have a solution, but I would think it would be a major clue to post the details of what is happening when the crash occurs. Normally, you would receive an error panel that would give you the details of the problem (e.g. Could not find a file). Or does it go into a "not responding" state?

Sometimes a check of the Windows Event log can provide additional clues.

Good Luck!
...Jerry

this is the error pane

http://i53.tinypic.com/2m5e0j8.jpg

i have found useful info from vegas reports in the past (like if it said "waves" or something) but I have not found useful info in any reports recently. maybe i am missing something.

regarding the HDD, some of those are partitions.

anyone have tips on a machine that could actually increase vegas performance?


i usually look at places like this:

http://www.adkvideoediting.com/systems/viewsystem.cfm?recordid=133

http://i55.tinypic.com/14491eo.jpg

VS this

http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/configure/Z0M4?select=select&product=Z0M4&mco=MTg2OTQ5OTk

"this is the error paneI think we're getting closer. The first three files listed here are log files. Browse these as soon as the error occurs and you may get a clue as to where the problem lies. Don't open Vegas again before you inspect the logs as I suspect these log files will be over written.

Also, scroll down in the error panel as I suspect there may be more info that will provide clues.

...Jerry

Extra Information
File: C:\Users\staff\AppData\Local\Sony\Vegas Pro\10.0\dx_video_grovel_x64.log
File: C:\Users\staff\AppData\Local\Sony\Vegas Pro\10.0\svfx_video_grovel_x64.log
File: C:\Users\staff\AppData\Local\Sony\Vegas Pro\10.0\dx_grovel_x64.log
File: T:\VV\Silent\D1_CUT-2_VV10_R11-CRASH.veg

Problem Description
Application Name: Vegas Pro
Application Version: Version 10.0e (Build 738) 64-bit
Problem: Unmanaged Exception (0xc0000005)
Fault Module: C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 10.0\vegas100.exe
Fault Address: 0x000000014019309F
Fault Offset: 0x000000000019309F

Fault Process Details
Process Path: C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 10.0\vegas100.exe
Process Version: Version 10.0e (Build 738) 64-bit
Process Description: Vegas Pro
Process Image Date: 2011-06-29 (Wed Jun 29) 17:33:50

--

dx_video_grovel_x64.log

INFO 2011-08-21 09:26:58 **** Grovelling DirectX video plug-ins in-proc ****
INFO 2011-08-21 09:26:58 Phase 1 - Enumerating non-shared dlls
INFO 2011-08-21 09:26:58 Loading C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 10.0\Video Plug-Ins\colorcorrector.dll
INFO 2011-08-21 09:26:58 Loading C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 10.0\Video Plug-Ins\PluginWrapper.dll
INFO 2011-08-21 09:26:58 Loading C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 10.0\Video Plug-Ins\sfpagepeel.dll
INFO 2011-08-21 09:26:58 Loading C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 10.0\Video Plug-Ins\sftrans1.dll
INFO 2011-08-21 09:26:58 Loading C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 10.0\Video Plug-Ins\vfplugs.dll
INFO 2011-08-21 09:26:58 Loading C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 10.0\Video Plug-Ins\vfx1.dll
INFO 2011-08-21 09:26:58 Loading C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 10.0\Video Plug-Ins\vidpcore.dll
INFO 2011-08-21 09:26:58 Phase 1 - Complete

--
svfx_video_grovel_x64.log

INFO 2011-08-21 09:30:26 **** Grovelling SVFX/OFX video plug-ins ****
INFO 2011-08-21 09:30:26 Phase 1 - Enumerating dlls
INFO 2011-08-21 09:30:26 Enumerating folder C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 10.0\OFX Video Plug-Ins
INFO 2011-08-21 09:30:26
INFO 2011-08-21 09:30:26 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
INFO 2011-08-21 09:30:26 Find modules with extension .DLL
INFO 2011-08-21 09:30:26
....
....ndle\Contents\Win64\VideoEssentials4.ofx
INFO 2011-08-21 09:30:26
INFO 2011-08-21 09:30:26 Total compatible plug-ins found in folder: 10
INFO 2011-08-21 09:30:26
INFO 2011-08-21 09:30:26 Phase 1 - Complete

--

dx_grovel_x64.log

is empty

--

as usual, I dont see any useful info in the reports

"Problem: Unmanaged Exception (0xc0000005)I agree. imho, it looks like it's time to submit a bug report. Normally, the programmer will "manage exceptions" by using a "try catch" construct. Maybe this hasn't happened here or maybe it's a branch to an assembly language routine or ???. I think it's time for Sony to get involved.

Good Luck!
...Jerry

@JHendrix:

I see a lot of partitions, but I only see one hard drive!

Best setup for NLE work is:

a 1- or 2-TB system drive,

a 1- or 2-TB RAID 10 (or RAID 5) data drive and

a 1- or 2-TB scratch drive.

This is a total of 6 (or 5) internal hard drives and throughput is much faster and more stable.

FWIW, I use 7200rpm, Seagate Barracuda SATA drives with 64GB cache.

HTH,

i'd rather try a new box before wasting too much time on this (even though I know it is vegas bugs...lol)

again, anyone knows of machines (and where to buy) that will:

outperform mine
outperform the top current apple mac pro

pls advise

@cybercom

is you drive setup all internal? what exactly are you using?

I use internal for os.

for data I I use Sonnet SATA card and external box for data but no raid as of yet.

Sonnet Tempo SATA Gen 2 PCI Express Adapter
x2 Sonnet Fusion DP500

where do you set the scratch drive? does it matter what is on the scratch drive?

@ amendegw

Good Luck is right!! lol

I'd still like to see the specific project file. it's 20 *HOURS* long, on the timeline, not just 20 hours of footage in the media pool?

I'd replace it with footage I have. The small issues you're having COULD be related to the length of the project, could be because it's on a mac or could be a real bug. I've never done anything 20 hours long on the timeline though. I normally use the trimmer and extract the sections from a file I want.

Suggestions that might help:
*reset Vegas to factory defaults. Hold CTRL+SHIFT when Vegas is starting up and it will pop up with a dialog. Clear the cache too.
*Vegas seems to open veg's linearly: ie a 10% is should be ~10% inside the TL or so. I'd again suggest moving some of the video clips to see if it still happens, and when Vegas reopens don't point it to the new location.
*Try disabling the thumbnails for events.

Most times I've had "random" issues like this they also seemed tied to something non-Vegas, but in Vegas they can cause issues. Carefully follow the keystrokes you're making & anything else you're doing. IE I used to have an issue where if I was using 5.1 mixing in Vegas the JKL shuttle keys would crash Vegas. It was because of the driver for my audio card for some reason.

Quite a few years ago now I was involved in a similar problem. Entire project shipped back to SCS and to the best of my knowledge the issue was never fully resolved. I do recall a comment from them along the lines of "We never thought anyone would try to do that with Vegas".

It does seem to me that HD uses for more RAM than SD and far more of it than we think, possibly around 50 times more. HDV and the other log GOP codecs has a double problem. First 4x more because of the pixel count, Secondly 15x because of the GOP, even worse with AVCHD. Not hard to see needing 60x more RAM!

As you note every NLE seems to have much the same prolemo, the only difference I've seen is some of the competition seems to handle running out of memory more elegantly than Vegas. Adobe's products can produce an "Oops we've run out of memory, do you want a last shot at saving your work" kind of message. Vegas just seems to prang without any real exception handling.

Things that might help.
Reduce the number of thumbnails, I've found this can help a lot.
Reduce preview quality.
Reduce the amount of RAM for Preview.


Aside from that a PC with a lot of RAM may get you more joy. That generally means going to a server class mobo and Xeon CPUs. Once you get into large amounts of RAM using ECC RAM seems wise to me. HP did offer me a system maxed out with 192GB of RAM, I've worked with people running 32GB in a Mac.

Bob.

@farss: Check out his system specs (above). He is running a Xeon processor with 32GB RAM.

@jhendrix: One more shot-in-the-dark (if you want to try it). Vegas has had some growing pains with the OFX plugins. Might be worth temporarily uninstalling the NewBlue OFX plugins and try to launch your project again. If that works, I'm sure both Sony & NewBlue would be interested in feedback. Were you using any NewBlue OFX plugins in your project?

Edit:If that works and I remember correctly, when you re-install the NewBlue Plugins, you can specify only the DirectX plugins (and not the OFX versions). Therefore, you won't lose the functionally of the NewBlue stuff.

...Jerry

thanks for the tips folks

i will take some of the suggestions and post back here.


@amendegw

I removed all audio and video plugins from the project but that sound like a good suggestion

"but my research has indicated a more powerful machine would do nothing for me in vegas (this was told to me by a guy who sells hot rod pcs) he said my only possible bottle neck is hard dive speed.

Hot Rod doesn't know what he is talking about. At least he knows nothing about Vegas. Premiere, Avid and FCP may choke on the hard disk drive throughput, but that doesn't seem to be a problem in Vegas as long as you are using 7200RPM drives on a SATA connection. Unlike Premiere, RAID won't give you much. n Vegas the processor speed is the most determinate of performance.

Your numerous partitions raises a red flag.

Partitioning became necessary when hard-disk size was more than DOS could address and the only way to use any hard-disk over 30Gb was with partitioning.

Today there are only a few valid reasons for partitions:
1) Hosting more than one O/S where each O/S needs its own Boot Partition
2) A Recovery Partition
3) To keep the O/S in a small partition - it's getting difficult to buy a PC with anything smaller than a 1TB boot disk, and Windows 7 needs no more than 100GB including a lot of installed applications.
4) With 3Tb disk drives becoming available, we've come full-circle and have hard-disk drives larger than NTFS can address.

Performance-wise, a separate partition is physically the same as a single disk drive. No advantage whatever.

How much space is free on your TEMP folder? Vegas is happiest when your TEMP folder is 2X the size of your project media.

3GHz dual-core processor should be OK with HDV and light F/X, but I would expect sluggish preview with AVCHD. You mentioned an unusual aspect ratio? If you are changing the pixel-ratio in the editor, then you are applying a very processor-intensive FX to every frame of the video. I wouldn't change the size off the video unless you really have to, and then only at the last possible moment.

What in the world do you have in all those partitions? What is your PHYSICAL disk arrangement?

"Check out his system specs (above). He is running a Xeon processor with 32GB RAM."

Now why did I get it into my head that he was running some ancient CPU with barely enough RAM to bootup?

I think I need a holiday, too many stuff ups lately.

BTW, anyone have any tips on how unstick a lens from a PL mount??

Thankfully it wasn't me that got it stuck but I was watching while it happened. It wouldn't have been all that bad but the lens turns out to be perfectly useless on the camera (FS100). It only covers a S16 sensor :(

Bob.

"BTW, anyone have any tips on how unstick a lens from a PL mount??"Obviously, this is not a recommendation, but your dilemna reminds me of an old saying... “All of life’s problems can be solved with two things—duct tape and WD40. If it moves and it shouldn’t, you need duct tape. And if it doesn’t move and it should, you need WD40." [heh, heh]

...Jerry