Blackmagic Decklink

Malcolm D wrote on 6/21/2008, 8:16 PM
Hello
I have been toying with the idea of getting Decklink HD Extreme 2.
1. Does it work with Vegas 8Pro now and what codec would be best to use.
2. Will it work with a Core 2 Duo E6600 system and Sata drives or are the system specs on the Blackmagic site mandatory? It seems that you need a custom purpose built system. Is a Raid disc system necessary for both SD and HD?
3. As it seems most HD material is file based I imagine that the SDI and analog features will be mostly used for SD formats and monitoring/playback capability. I want to be able to offer and edit suite without obvious limitations so feel this card would cover most bases. Does anyone have experience or advice regarding this?
4. Are the monitoring capabilities (SDI,HDMI etc) an advantage over a windows secondary monitor? Will frame rate be any better off an MPEG2 HDV or XDCAM EX timeline?
Thanks
Malcolm

Comments

farss wrote on 6/21/2008, 10:25 PM
1. I believe so.
2. The system specs are for real. Be warned some / all Dell computers don't work due to their mobo design.
3. HD SDI is the industry standard for monitors etc.
4. Don't know about HD but playback of SD over SDI is very sweet even on my old Supermicro system.


None of this stuff is cheap, probably a good idea to talk to a system integrator who has done it before and will guarantee it'll work and if it doesn't be on your doorstep real quick. You could be spending a lot of money and charging clients accordingly, down time costs you money and clients.

Bob.
Malcolm D wrote on 6/21/2008, 11:01 PM
Thanks Bob.
I know you have asked this before. Did you find an answer?
Does the intensity card or Decklink for that matter improve over windows secondary display when monitoring.
I can't see how as Vegas would still have to serve up same amount of data wouldn't it? Talking mainly HDV or EX1 timeline here.
Malcolm
farss wrote on 6/22/2008, 12:56 AM
As vegas doesn't use any hardware acceleration so as far as I know it would not help. In general though once you have a system with enough power for HD SDI capture Vegas will probably keep up anyway. Also the less compressed formats require less CPU power for Vegas to do its thing. Also the less scaling that's going on the better Vegas will perform.

Bob.
StormMarc wrote on 6/22/2008, 4:31 AM
"Does the intensity card or Decklink for that matter improve over windows secondary display when monitoring"

Malcolm, At this point I would say buyer beware. I just bought an Intensity card and so far the display looks much worse than the secondary monitor feature. In fact the secondary display feature looks wonderful in comparison. I'm having the same problem when viewing it through the component outputs of the intesity to standard NTSC.

Here's my problem from another post.

I just installed an Intensity pro (latest drivers) and opened up a 1080i HDV (Cineform NEO) project in Vegas. I set the preview to "Blackmagic Design Decklink" (Conform output to 1080-60i)

Here's my problem: When viewing Intensity output (best quality) to the HDMI input of my BEN Q 1920x1200 monitor the text and video looks jagged (almost like it's in draft mode).

Yet if I view the same project using the secondary monitor feature of Vegas on the same monitor at full HD my text and video looks very smooth.

Any ideas? The reason I bought this card was because I was under the impression from other user's comments I could get more accurate previews for color grading than when using the secondary monitor feature built into Vegas.
farss wrote on 6/22/2008, 5:58 AM
From the few reviews I've read most computer monitor's component inputs are pretty bad. Doesn't your monitor have a HDMI input?
Surely it has a DVI input and I think you can get DVI to HDMI adaptors. Keping it all digital has got to help.

Bob.
StormMarc wrote on 6/22/2008, 6:11 AM
Bob if you're responding to me:

Yes I am using the HDMI output of the Intesity into the HDMI input of a BEN Q full HD res. 1920x1200 monitor. I am also using the Component output of the Intensity into the component input of a Sony Professional SD monitor. Both solutions look pretty bad using the Intensity.

When I use the Secondary monitor feature of Vegas (NVidea 8800 DVI output) it looks really good on the Ben Q. Firewire out of Vegas through my Canopus ADVC-100 into my Sony monitor also looks good. The only reason I bought the intesity was that I was under the impression the color reproduction would be more accurate for color correction.

I should also mention that my Motherboard (TYAN i5000XT) is not on the approved list so that may be part of the problem.

Regards, Marc
farss wrote on 6/22/2008, 7:01 AM
"Bob if you're responding to me:"

Yes, sorry, ya all gotta excuse mi typing and all lately, good keyboard died and this one it on the fritz as well and the radio mouse it has a mind of it's on as well.

Sorry to hear that, I know what it's like to spend a bit on kit and it doesn't all work out like you'd hoped.
The HDMI connect kind of surprises me, the component not quite as much. One thing I did learn from Sony, their ClearVid sensors alias on diagonals instead of horizontals and verticals so if you're looking at footage from such a camera that might explain some of it or not, I'd expect you'd see that on the secondary display as well.

The only other comment I can add is I'd serious doubt the mobo having anything to do with it. It might affect frame rate but I'm hard pressed to see it affecting quality. Yesterday I'd convinced myself Gigabyte mobos had serious issues with 1000baseT networks but after a post on a forum I've learned it's the kind of switches I'm using. Hint for anyone trying to get GigE to work. The HP Procurve J9077A are the best of the bunch, more so if anything else on the network is a bit suspect.

Bob.



rmack350 wrote on 6/22/2008, 10:54 AM
As Bob says, an integrator who'll stand by their setup is worth their weight in gold. They may not have direct experience setting this card up for Vegas but they might like to try. And if it doesn't work maybe they can take the card back.

There is a big advantage to having SDI ingest capability because this is the universal can opener that can get problem media into your system. For example, Vegas doesn't natively handle DVCProHD but if you ingest it over SDI you can save it in some other codec that Vegas can work with. FCP users do this a lot although, oddly, I keep reading posts from them someof them saying they pull dvcproHD in over SDI and then write it as DVCProHD. Seems like they could just draw it in over firewire but maybe they like to keep open some scoping and processing options that SDI might allow over 1394.

Rob Mack
Coursedesign wrote on 6/22/2008, 2:14 PM
FCP users do this a lot although, oddly, I keep reading posts from them someof them saying they pull dvcproHD in over SDI and then write it as DVCProHD. Seems like they could just draw it in over firewire but maybe they like to keep open some scoping and processing options that SDI might allow over 1394.

There is no universal standard for DVCPROHD over firewire. It can be done with an AJA IO HD box though, and I think the MOTU V3HD can do it also.
MattWright wrote on 7/1/2008, 3:04 PM
Hi Malcolm and Marc.

Firstly Malcolm, IMHO I think the BlackMagic Cards are now working great, give a true picture and correct colour information when used with a proper monitor.

My company also supplies PC's as a systems Integrator (but unfortunately I am in the U.K. so probably won't be of much use).

The key to the BlackMagic Stuff is to do Everything Uncompressed, so the key to any system is get the fatest and biggest RAID you can afford for HD you must sustain 250MB/s Read and Write minimum.

Then the second most important thing to get the system right is to keep everyhting in the right format, for example if you shoot on an EX-1 for instance. which shoots at 1920 x 1080 upper field first. You need to set the project properties to 1920 x 1080 Upper Field FIrst, at the right frame rate, your display setting must be BlackMagic 1920 x 1080 Upper Field, and ideally your monitor will be a CRT HD monitor or a 1920 x 1080 LCD which can do 1:1 pixel mapping showing the full overscan area.

In this configuration the BlackMagic will give you a perfect picture and perfect colour fidelity and perfect playback.



Marc : I am not quite sure whats happening with your setup, it sounds right to me, if the drivers have installed and you are getting a picture out of Vegas then I wouldn't worry about the approved list, it is working.

Marc, Can you try this, can you set the BEN-q monitor to 1:1 Pixel Mapping, most LCD's are 1920 x 1200 and one problem maybe that the LCD Monitor is upscaling your lovely video and destructing it.

Another thing to try Marc is create a new project, and use the default setting template of ¨HD 1080-60i¨ dont change a thing. Next in your preview options, make sure that you select HD 1920 x 1080 x 60i as the output Blackmagic format.

you should be able to load 1920 or 1440 x 1080 footage into this project, and do text generation and it should look good. I tend to use Preview / FULL as my preview setting and it should look awesome. DONT use Cineform files att his point, try some native m2t files or stuff generated by Sony Vegas.

Let me know how you get on.

Good Luck

Matt