>But you are limited to about 31 minutes of playable time per disc. What to do?

Sorry, but I am not sure I completely follow. Have you tried burning a BluRay BDMV from the Vegas timeline using DVD+R DL or DVD-R DL media? Although I have not tested BluRay creation using dual layer DVD media (I will be shortly), in principle it seems it should provide about 60 minutes of AVC (H.264) encoded HD content, using the Vegas 15 mbps encoding option .

--Rob

This isn't a Blu-Ray problem but a FAT32 problem. As Sony informed you, your external drive has to be formatted FAT32. NTFS is held close to the chest by MS, and creating drivers for NTFS is hard, as shown by the fact that even on Linux NTFS (writable) support is not easy if you are not Windows.

On FAT32 you can not have files that are bigger than 4G. This is not a Blu-Ray limitation, but a FAT32 limitation. If you write to a Blu-Ray disk that uses UDF 2.5, which does not have this limitation.

So, what are your options? Sadly not too many. It is going to be hard for Sony to add NTFS support to the PS3, it's probably not going to happen. This means you will not get big files (>4G) on a PS3 external HDD.

Now, it seems you should be able to fit the thing on a DVD-DL disk. You won't be able to using your standard DVD burning software, but if you can find software that will burn this to an UDF 2.5 formatted DVD, you should be fine.

So I put the three pieces onto the HD and while the PS3 sees the HD now, it does not see any viable media.The PS3 uses some default directory filters. To see the whole external harddisk highlight the external drive & press the "Triangle" button, then select "Display ALL".
OR, create a directory on the FAT32 drive called
\VIDEO (put your videos under this directory)
\AUDIO (put your music files under this directory)
\PICTURE (put your pic's under this directory)
Linux can easily format these large drives as FAT32, there are linux live dvd's you can run straight from the dvd to do this (Knoppix). Other linux utilities that run from a live cd/dvd.

I use Nero Media HomeServer (comes with Nero7/8, assign the directories, give your media an extension of mpg. The PS3 will connect to this network server and play it's compatible media. I have no problems playing back 25MBS over my network (1gig & 100meg).
When using the PS3 connected to a media server you can also highlight the media file, click on the "Triangle" button & select to Copy the file to the PS3's local harddisk.
I put a 250gig sata external drive as the Operating System drive on my PS3. You need to buy a sata extension cable to do this and power the drive separately.
Instead of using the burn blu-ray disk you can just export your video as avchd m2ts making your own customized template, it's the same file that's written using the burn blu-ray disk method.
If you change the bit-rate to 10 or 12MBS the videos still look good. 15MBS is better of course, but that depends how good the source videos are. Using the lower bit-rates will allow more video on the dvd (as you already know)

That super sharpness is GREAT in certain situations (most) but I've got some old ladies (like in their 90's) in my movie - and that sharpness ain't helping THEM out - for sure.

This is the bees knees (if you have AE or any of a number of alternatives). The price, $89.95, isn't too bad either.

Many features, but of particular interest may be its "jaggie-reducing filter" to eliminate staircasing (especially useful for certain interlaced footage), block artifacts remover for DV and MPEG footage, and softening areas without blurring edges.

Lots more, this is the #1 tool for making people look good in post.

There are some tools that can provide a few of its capabilities inside Vegas too, and DFX (now Tiffen) offers skin smoothing filters as well.

Of course if you have a "Skin Detail" function in your camera, you usually don't need to think of any of this. This DSP function just blurs the "hemoglobin vector" that signifies skin, whether white, black, red, or yellow. Once you get this set properly (after a fair amount of testing), this is the quickest and easiest way, imho.

This is kool. We spend billions trying to make video sharper and now we want to blur it up because it is too sharp because the old ladies don't like it. I kind of got used to looking at out of place hairs, zits under makeup, skin aberations, scars, dandruf on the suits, loose threads, wrinkled pants, and a lot of skin defects in the cleavage area.
I have been listening but have not heard any farts yet.
JJK

4eyes -

thank you so much for your in-depth reply.

Accordingly, I put my video into a folder "\VIDEO"
did not create any other folders.

PS3 sees the folder but not the videos (same files as work perfectly on DVD burns via Veags 8e)

So I renamed the videos "movie.mpg"
Now it sees the files but sez they are corrupted - what do you suggest?

Also - how/where do you attach the 250gig SATA drive and why do you call it an Operating System? Is it different from the OS contained in PS3? Why do you care?

Finally - where is the avchd m2t template located? What is it called (exactly)? While I await your reply I'm trying a "Render As Blu-Ray 1080i lowering the bit rate to 15,000,000 as you suggest. I've given up on trying to "hard disc" a show, due to the 4Gig FAT32 limit. Right now I'm going to experiment with lower bit rates and double density discs. All that until Sony releases the 4x Blu-Ray writer (hopefully soon).

I do like the PS3 player though, my "regular" DVD's look better than my current deck, so it's worth the bucks.

I'm not too much for the games available, being more of a thinker than a shooter, blower upper, pretend run-arounder. I think it's a function of age and culture.

best
v

v

What many people don't realize is that the Blu-ray compatible AVCHD format isn't just for DVD+-R discs. It's for any media or directory within a given media.

It will take a bit of rendering time. but if you render it in sections as an AVCHD disc using MF6+ with the HD plugin pack, it should play off of a folder in your external USB drive and should go from section to section smoothly.

Of course I haven't tried this out yet so I can't guarantee it. I just know that that is what the spec says you can do.

"being more of a thinker than a shooter", Gee, I though you were a great camera-guy/guru, not a theoretical physicist by nature - but who knew? ;-)

That focus issue can be a "B", that is why I like a secondary display of the camera image. I prefer "seeing" output during the edit on 40/60" displays just check focus/color + other issues. But my camera skills are marginal at best at run and shoot.

The PS3 is the best "package" for general media. I would suggest structuring the media into "sections", where you may think may seek to change or have alternate versions in the video or audio stream on the unit.

good luck!

I knew that you were catching up technologically with us and maybe even passing us, but when did you skip into the future all the way to Vegas Pro 8e?

<<<<<Vegas 8e allows you to conform and burn <<<<<<<

vicmilt,
Now it sees the files but sez they are corrupted - what do you suggest?Sounds like you rendered a file with the extension of AVC which only contains video (elementary stream I suppose).
You are talking about making avchd/h264 video files to playback on the PS3 correct, I hope so.

This is one of my methods:
In Vegas I have a HDV file on the timeline & my Project Properties are HDV 1080i @ 25MBS CBR, UFF, De-interlace=none, audio 48khz Stereo or 5.1.
Render As -> Sony AVC (mp4, m2ts, avc)
Choose Default Template or any Blu-Ray template -> Custom *Make sure to save this new template your making*
1st tab - "BEST" for rendering Quality
System Tab - Last right hand tab (System Tab) change drop-down box to m2ts extension (container format).
Audio tab check-ON "Audio" to be embedded, match the Dolby Audio settings to your project properties (this is mandatory with my setup or errors, so if you select 5.1 make sure your project properties are 5.1 before making the custom template 5.1 or export will generate an error). Either way the export audio settings need to match your project settings.
Video Properties should say "AVCHD" (because you selected m2ts), 1440,1080, UFF.
To change the default 15MBS type in directly in the video_bit_rate selection box. Full all numeric numbers, no abbreviations. I generally use 12 to 14 depends, even less (6 - 10) example: 14000000.
Rename the original template & save this new template as Blu-Ray AVCHD. You must save this template if you started with the default template.
(Make sure your fielding & PAR (pixel aspect ratio) settings are correct.
Then render the file.
This will produce a file with an extension of m2ts, playable in the PS3.
Put this file on a harddisk or dvd under a directory called VIDEO
You can also select MP4 as a container. Those files will also play, the audio will be AAC.

If your source videos aren't very high quality then you can easily drop the bit-rate down to 8/10/12MBS.
Even 4MBS looks OK using high quality source, it's acceptable to produce a small filesize.

I'm more of a hack than a guru. None-the-less, I've done a number of Bluray compatible AVCHD discs and HD DVD compatible 3x DVD discs on regular DVD+-R. What I haven't done a full feature length film in HD as Vic Milt has. The length of his project is what is giving him all this grief.

The Bluray compatible AVCHD format is designed to be a consumer HD video playback format. Thus it is designed to work off of all the types of media that a consumer camera might use: DVD+-R, solid state flash ram, and hard discs. Consumer grade cameras use all of these storage methods and the AVCHD format is designed to be compatible with them all. Doing a feature length film is not what this format is supposed to do, but it is supposed to play back hours worth of home footage smoothly. That is why I am so sure of my answer.

vicmilt, Another neat process for mpeg2 video on Blu-Ray via Vegas Pro 8a instead of avchd/h264

How to make a Blu-Ray Disc without re-encoding a compliant HDV 1440x1080i source video, no video quality loss
First under “Options -> Preferences” make sure “Enable no re-compress long gop rendering” is checked ON.

Create a new template to be used in the “Tools -> Burn Blu-Ray Disc” Process.
File -> Render_As
"Save as type " = MainConcept MPEG-2(*.mpg, *.m2v,*.mpv)
"Template" = Default Template -> Custom
"System Tab" = "Save as separate elementary streams" = Checked ON
"Audio Tab" = "Include audio stream" = Checked OFF
"Video Tab" = "Output Type" = HDV (Click OK when prompted to change settings)
Double Check the audio & system tabs are set as per above.
Name the template "HDV No-Recompress 1440x1080" (close enough to remember) and save this template with this new name (or your name).
Exit back to the timeline.

Use this template in the Burn Blu-Ray Disc Screen.
"Tools -> Burn Disk -> Blu-Ray Disc
Video Format = MainConcept MPEG-2(*.mpg, *.m2v, *.m2t, *.mpa)
Video template = "HDV No-Recompress 1440x1080" (the custom template you made above)
For the audio format you to export Dolby 5.1 you must have your Project Settings set to 5.1 audio.
Select your audio, assign a directory to build the ISO image file.
When you click on OK to start the process during encoding the video your preview screen will display "No Recompression Required" IF your source video is compliant.
Problem with doing this on dvd is:
20 Minutes for Single layer dvd, 40 minutes for Dual-layer dvds

Cool

I read a thread like this and I realize how totally lost and inadequate I am when it comes to understanding BlueRay, PS3, FAT32 and HD.
Still I'm making movies, with all that entails,----lighting, audio etc.
Clients are eveing paying me.
But there's so much to learn when it comes to getting images to one of these new media/formats.
I'm still stuck back in dark ages, shooting SD Mini DV,4:3 no less, burned to DVD, .avi, QT or .wmv.
So much to learn and where to begin?
Oh for a younger more powerful brain!!!

Sherman -

First of all, unless you're a lot older than me, we'll hear no more about a "younger brain"!

The truth is we're ALL caught in this boat of rapidly expanding, changing and evolving technology, and the change is brutal (and wonderful) -

Look... if you worked in Hollywood in the late 1930's, you could have bought yourself a neat Moviola editing machine and STILL be working today on that same machine. Even if you upgraded to the neatest slick editing table, the technology and tools have remained essentially the same (give me a little slack here - we're talking concept).

But in MY edit suite (and most of yours) there's not a tool that was even INVENTED over 12 years ago (more or less) and those tools have been totally revamped (and made HUGELY faster, easier and cheaper), in a continuing evolution.

So if you wanna be a film-maker (film? what's that?) you've got to accept that you're gonna be "in school" for the rest of your career. Fer instance, next week I'm taking a Scott Kelby "fluff-up" course on Photoshop 3. And whenever I get the chance, I absolutely attend the Vaast boys seminars. Guys like Rich Harrington, Douglas Spotted Eagle (Spot) and Jefferey Fisher have devoted themselves to keeping up with the changes and distilling them to understandable English for the rest of us.

The incredible beauty of all this evolution is right here though!

When I lived in the heart of Manhattan, the answers to "high-tech" questions were right at hand with the myriad of accessible professionals who also lived in NYC. You could drop into an equipment rental shop, a lab or even a friendly editor's place, and ask questions and get answers... when they were'nt too busy!

But today, my mentors, friends and experts are right here - on my laptop - even though they live AROUND THE WORLD! What an incredible resource - and it's FREE. Pluggers like Grazie, Farss, Serena, Laurence, 4eyes and so many others (even me, sometimes) will gladly reach out and lend you a hand on the most ESOTERIC of subjects. There's an awful lot to learn, but you don't have to know it ALL! Just get what YOU Need! Right now, I NEED to get my film onto an affordable HiDef format, so I can project it to various groups. Look at all the help I'm getting!

So Sherman - don't feel overwhelmed, and take heart. We are all here for each other - learning, teaching and evolving. Just read this thread to understand that what I say is the absolute truth.

It's wonderful (and thanks guys and gals) - I personally could never have gotten this far in my craft without you all.... and Sherman... it's a bitch to get all this stuff... especially when you know it will essentially be worthless knowledge in a couple of years. But you can do it - just take one step, then another, then another and then you can help me too!

best,
v

I was at a conference last week and one of the local old shool shooters made a similar set of comments:

1) If you can shoot with a tight ratio film is still the cheapest way to deliver content for the big screen.

2) Film cameras don't cost anything to upgrade, you get that for free when Kodak / Fuji release a new stock.

And as you said, the old editing systems still work, today, as they have for decades with nothing more than replacement lamps and the odd grease.

And despite all the wonders of the digital age, what does content still get archived to, film! We know it'll be readable in 50 years. Even if humanity got wiped out some alien vistor finding our film vaults would have no difficulty working out what a roll of film was.

The problem really is the amazing new technology that keeps rolling out, making todays amazing new technolgy obsolete and hence unusable. I've been able to to transfer film that was shot nearly 50 years ago and yet videotape from 20 years ago is highly problematic, there's too little demand for the equipment to play it for it to be kept functional. Digital data tapes are as much if not more of a problem, the list of formats that have faded into obscurity is even longer. I was thinking of investing in LTO3 only to learn about LTO4 but how long will that be around. Sure you can transfer from an old format to the latest but one then face an ever increasing about of work as the library grows.

Bob.

> I read a thread like this and I realize how totally lost and inadequate I am when it comes to understanding BlueRay, PS3, FAT32 and HD.

You should not have to understand these things. It is an artifact of the immaturity of HD delivery. Vic is trying to fit a1 hr movie onto a 1/2 hr medium which is why he is trying all sorts or workarounds (AVCHD, PS3, FAT32, etc.). Like he said, when the new Sony Blu-ray 4x burner comes out this thread will be moot. (actually, you can buy a 2x burner right now and make all this moot)

> Still I'm making movies, with all that entails,----lighting, audio etc. Clients are eveing paying me.

And that's all that really matters. Don't let the lack of an HD delivery solution keep you from practicing your craft. None of this matters if you don't know how to make a good movie.

> But there's so much to learn when it comes to getting images to one of these new media/formats.

All you need to know is buy a Blu-ray burner to burn your HD movies. Vic is trying to do it without buying the burner just yet because he's waiting for the new 4x burner which is faster. PS3's are big and bulky as are Blu-ray players. The ultimate solution is buy a burner, then buy a Sony Viao laptop with a blu-ray reader and show your movies on your laptop to clients. Nice and portable.

> I'm still stuck back in dark ages, shooting SD Mini DV,4:3 no less, burned to DVD, .avi, QT or .wmv. So much to learn and where to begin?

No. It is HD delivery that is in the dark ages not you. We are making HD discs with "stone knives and bear skins". We are all waiting for HD delivery to get out of the dark ages and become modernized with burners that can handle the media and software that actually understands how to make a disc with menus just like SD DVD's. It is the pain of being on the edge of the technology curve.

> Oh for a younger more powerful brain!!!

I find that, in general, younger brains make more mistakes and are highly overrated. ;-)

All of this reminds me of pre-2001 before the first affordable DVD burners came out and we were discussing how to make Video CD's and what bit-rate to use to get an hour of video onto what amounts to a 650MB CD. I still have some of my movies on VCD and boy does it look bad. I promised myself I would reburn those projects on DVD (I backed the masters up to DV tape) but somehow I haven't gotten around to that yet. Everything old is new again.

~jr

As a follow-up to my message above about using dual layer DVD media for an AVC encoded Blu-Ray BDMV formated disc, I was able to successfully create such a disc from within Veags using DVD+R DL media. The disc had slightly more than 1 hour of HD content (HDV source material rendered to AVC - which took on the order of 15 hours on my P4 3.06 GHz!). I'm guessing I can get around 70 minutes of content on a DVD+R DL disc.

While I do not have a PlayStation, I do have a Samsung BD-P1200 and the disc plays fine with that Blu-Ray player.

--Rob

"All of this reminds me of pre-2001 before the first affordable DVD burners came out and we were discussing how to make Video CD's and what bit-rate to use to get an hour of video onto what amounts to a 650MB CD. I still have some of my movies on VCD and boy does it look bad. I promised myself I would reburn those projects on DVD (I backed the masters up to DV tape) but somehow I haven't gotten around to that yet. Everything old is new again." Nice summary JohnnyRoy! This is how I feel. There are many solutions with DVDs but it is more miss direction for serious work for HD content when promoting one's finished product.

I noticed that on the HP website when customizing a PC (or some pre-built ones) they are coming with Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player & dvd burners, combo units, finally.
According to what I'm reading you can get a blu-ray writer (not hd-dvd).

Here's a link: Click on the "Customize & Buy" to see the blu-ray player & burner
Halfway down the page after clicking on "Customize & Buy" view the "Primary CD/DVD Drive"
HP Website
Anyone know what Blu-Ray burner this is? Also reads HD-DVD's.
They do have a Blu-Ray & HD-DVD read-only besides the blu-ray burner.

Found some of these:
LG16x Internal Blu-Ray disc burner/HD DVD reader
It's a LG - GGW-H20LI

Reader

When I started in TV years ago we had a state-or-the-art, for the time, machine that played commercials on video cassetts,----with 2 inch tape.
We programmed it with some sort of disks and it work great when it didn't jam.
The two inch reel to reel machines needed huge fans to keep them cool.
Many local programs were recorded on those machines and are now lost forever, having never been archived.
We used telecine for news programs,----A and B reel that were really reels of recenlty processed 16 mm film..
You had to be really fast to thread those things on the fly.
Fast or fired.
I remember the first "character generator" we go, so we could generate supers electronically!
And a portable half inch panasonic camera the news department was trying out.
Not to mention the Marconi Mark IV cameras that needed a blasting search light to get an image.
It was pretty complicated.
Maybe that's why I opted for a career in radio.
How things have changed.
And so must we,---or self destruct.
Baby steps won't do any more.
Giant strides to keep up!!!
By the left,----quick march,---into the exciting,---if not forboding future.

4eyes -

congrats - you found the first one!
6x BR disc recorder for only $399.

They promise it by Chistmas - I'm going out to shovel snow off of sidewalks and save up to buy one!!

It's getting closer by the second.... whoopee.

v