when I launch Boris RED from within Vegas4, I can still access the AE plugins that I've put in the BorisFX plugins foleder.

More than likely, your registry keys are not properly locating the folders where your AE filters are. Can you post the directories for your Vegas and Red 3GL installations (including the filter directories you're trying to access)?

>>>More than likely, your registry keys are not properly locating the folders where your AE filters are. Can you post the directories for your Vegas and Red 3GL installations (including the filter directories you're trying to access)?<<<

I went through the registry and looked at each and every entry. Here is the weird part - when i installed the demo you can choose to install the BCC AEX filters. I choose "L" for the location to install too but the Filters install to the "C" drive. All the registry entrys say "L", which would be correct. Ok - so I manually move the BorisPlugins directory to the right place for my install - which according to the manual would be "[Install directory]/Program Files/Boris Fx, Inc/BorisPlugins/" So that is where I move them too - this is also what the registry says. But nothing came up. So I try this - I move the BorisPlugins directory to inside the "Boris RED 3.0 Demo" (so the path is "L:\Program Files\Boris FX, Inc\Boris RED 3.0 Demo\BorisPlugins") and *poof* all the plug-ins show up.

But, as I said, none of them show up when you launch the program from within VV. So if snicholsms is correct they should not, because VV does not support AEX plugs. However BillRavens says they do show up. Which means that something is wrong in both my setup and snicholsms setup.

And to directly answer the question "Can you post the directories for your Vegas and Red 3GL installations (including the filter directories you're trying to access)?"

L:\Program Files\Boris FX, Inc
L:\Program Files\Boris FX, Inc\Boris RED 3.0 Demo
L:\Program Files\Boris FX, Inc\Boris RED 3.0 Demo\BorisPlugins
L:\Program Files\Boris FX, Inc\Boris RED 3.0 Demo\BCC Presets
L:\Program Files\Boris FX, Inc\Keyframe Libraries\RED 3.0 Keyframe Library
L:\Program Files\Boris FX, Inc\Styles

All the above seem to work fine for the stand alone. The registry matches for everything. There is no other entry for anything Boris related or "BCC" related that points to any other place(s).

I did try dumping a copy of the filters back out to "L:\Program Files\Boris FX, Inc\BorisPlugins"
as well as "C:\Program Files\Boris FX, Inc\BorisPlugins" but nothing changed as far as the VV plug-in.

A re-install didn't matter. A "repair" didn't matter either.

Have you tried putting it in the Vegas Plug-Ins directory?

Just a thought.

Filmy, before I ask for more info, I'd like you to try a workaround. Go to your Vegas installation folder. From what you describe as your installation customs, and assuming you bought Vegas 4 before the Sony purchase, this would likely be

L:\Program Files\Sonic Foundry\Vegas 4.0

Inside that Vegas 4.0 folder you should see the main Vegas executable file, "vegas40.exe", and the Red plugin extension file, "Boris Red 3GL", or something similar. (I haven't actually installed version 3GL yet -- am still working from the beta.) Within that same folder (or whatever folder in which your Red dll file for Vegas resides), create a new folder called "BorisPlugins". Be exact with punctuation on this folder name. Then copy/paste all the Red plugin filters you are trying to access from their current location to this new folder.

Relaunch Vegas and then the Red plugin and see if you see the desired filters within Red. If so, and if you are content to use a copy of the filters from this location, your problem is solved.

If you want to try to use one copy of the filters from their existing location, then please post the exact path data/entry that is currently in your registry which names the location of the BorisPlugins folder. I suspect that key will have to be edited.

This is a side question because I don't own AE nor BCC. But RED 3GL includes, if I understand correctly, all the filters comprising BCC in a native RED interface. Wouldn't you just be duplicating the same filter sets if you are trying to install BCC filters written for AE within RED?

>>>If you want to try to use one copy of the filters from their existing location, then please post the exact path data/entry that is currently in your registry which names the location of the BorisPlugins folder. I suspect that key will have to be edited.<<<

I thought I already did that -

Same as the install. So - "L:/Program Files/Boris Fx, Ltd/Boris Red 3.0 Demo/BorisPlugins/"
So it is correct for the path. But there in no entry for any Boris filters for VV. Are you saying there should be one? I mean under the VV settings in the reg are you saying there should be some setting for Boris?

I will move a copy of the filters over to the VV directory. But the thing is I don't think there is a "plug-in" really for VV, the DLL file resides in the main Boris Directory. But I will check.

As for the "But RED 3GL includes, if I understand correctly, all the filters comprising BCC in a native RED interface. Wouldn't you just be duplicating the same filter sets if you are trying to install BCC filters written for AE within RED?" question - I am not sure, all the BCC filters install as After Effects plug-ins. In other words they don't have a "BRP" or whatever extension on them, they all have the "AEX" extension.

<<I thought I already did that ->>

You stated the directory for the BorisPlugins folder, which I wanted to know. But I was also after (and I'm by no means a registry guru, so I may not know the right terminology) the content at the registry path similar to:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Boris FX, Inc.\Boris Red 3GL

I just wanted you to post and confirm the existence and details of a key at the above location. It should be in a 3-field table. The name should be “abPlugins"; type should be REG_SZ; and the data field should contain the installation path of your BorisPlugins folder.

You indicated that the registry matched the actual installation path, so I realize this may be a redundant request. I just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing, thus the need for you to find that specific key.

I was a beta tester for Red 3GL and we had to install new builds every few weeks, always without an installer. So I obtained and would routinely edit and re-enter a number of custom registry keys so that the engine and various plugin versions of the product could access the same Red workspaces, styles, filters, etc. I'm bound by NDA on certain aspects of this, but I am just trying to pass along what I can of my knowledge of how to get these ancillary parts of the program to integrate across the engine and various instances of the Red plugin.

I have NOT yet obtained or installed the shipping version of Red 3 and therefore can't speak authoritatively on what the included installer is doing or what keys it's entering and how they are changed or messed up with non-default installation paths.

That's why I wanted you to try putting copies into a new folder located right next to the Red 3.dll, but that presumed it was located next to your Vegas dll. When I was beta testing, I had 3 versions of the product going: the engine, the version for Premiere, and the Vegas version. I put the Premiere dll next to the engine exe within the Boris Red 3 installation folder and put the Vegas dll next to the Vegas executable in the Vegas installation folder. Vegas couldn't access Red in any other location during beta testing, as far as I know, and I think there was a problem putting two identically named Red dlls in the same folder anyway.

But again, I don't know how the shipping version with its auto installer may have changed this behavior. I do suggest you try creating the new “BorisPlugins” folder RIGHT NEXT to the Red/Vegas dll, wherever it is in your installation. It that gives you access to the filters, at least we would have some progress.

>>>But I was also after (and I'm by no means a registry guru, so I may not know the right terminology) the content at the registry path similar to:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Boris FX, Inc.\Boris Red 3GL<<<

Ahh...ok..gotcha.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Boris FX, Inc
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Boris FX, Inc\Boris Continuum Complete RED3GL 2.0
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Boris FX, Inc.\Boris RED 3.0 Demo

Now you said "It should be in a 3-field table. The name should be “abPlugins"; type should be REG_SZ; and the data field should contain the installation path of your BorisPlugins folder."

This could be the problem - there is no entry anywhere in the reg, for 'abPlugins'. Under the 'HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Boris FX, Inc\Boris RED 3.0 Demo' section there is a "Plugins" REG_SZ entry and the location/path is "L:\Program Files\Boris FX, Inc\BorisPlugins\" however, as I said, the plug-ins would not work there so I moved them to "L:\Program Files\Boris FX, Inc\Boris RED 3.0 Demo\BorisPlugins\" and they worked fine. As for the DLL you mention - there are other entrys called "PRM" (For premiere I am sure) "REX" (For Rex?) "RZR" (Speed razor I assume) "ULD" (Ulead?) and "XPRI" (I have no idea) and all of these have the same location - "L:\Program Files\Boris FX, Inc\Boris RED 3.0 Demo\BorisRED3 Demo.dll" I guess these are all default entrys because I did not install all these plug-ins. I only installed the VV and After Effects ones.

On some further looking I see what you are talking about - there are two Dll's in the VV "Video Plug-ins" folder: "RED3 DemoVVFL.dll" and "RED3 DemoVVTR.dll" and they seem to call to the "BorisRED3 Demo.dll" (If I remove that DLL I get an error in VV saying it can not find the "BorisRED3 Demo.dll") A reg search does not turn up anything with "VVFL" or "VVTR" in it.

Thusly - putting the "Borisplugins" folder in the VV "Video Plug-ins" folder, where the Boris Plug-in's exist) does nothing. HOWEVER(!!!) Putting that folder next to (in the same folder as) the "vegas40k.dll" does indeed work. WOW..weird. So if this an installer issue? (Not putting an entry for VV into the reg?) or are the DLL's hardwired to look for the plug-ins in the VV root folder? ([install directory]/Vegas 4.0/)

Nice work around - thanks! But not something people want to deal with other than beta testers and computer geeks. LOL!

Well..now that I have the After Effects in VV solved - NICE! And even nicer is that I can load up the AE filter in the Red interface and add it, go back to VV and save it as a preset so than next time all I have to do is choose the Red plug, select my pre-set and never open Boris. NICE!!

But, still...would I spend this amount of money for a AEX holder, so to speak. I will say that being able to use FilmFX or Digital FIlm Lab in VV is nice - I don't have to frame serve to After Effects with it. I know there is more you can do with Red..just the main reason I wanted to try it again is 1> Interaction with VV and 2> use of my AE plugs. I will admit I am a bit excited at not having to leave VV to do a film look now. I can do the film color timing and the 24p in one motion and not have to render twice. But is it worth the price? As pooh would say "Think, think, think."

<<Thusly - putting the "Borisplugins" folder in the VV "Video Plug-ins" folder, where the Boris Plug-in's exist) does nothing.>>

My bad, filmy. I should have clarified for you that you will find 3 Red files in your Vegas installation: two "little" dlls in the Vegas "Video Plug-Ins" folder named BorisRED3VVFL.dll and BorisRED3VVTR.dll and a "big" dll out next to the Vegas executable named "BorisRED3.dll" or something similar. It's this "big" dll that I was referring to when I told you to look for the RED dll file in the Vegas 4.0 folder next to the Vegas executable. This is "the" dll for Red in Vegas. The other two serve simply to make Red appear in both the "Transitions" and "Video FX" tabs of Vegas.


<<HOWEVER(!!!) Putting that folder next to (in the same folder as) the "vegas40k.dll" does indeed work.>>

Yup. Down side is that, without proper registry keys, you have to have two copies of your Red plugin filters. And for BCC filters that means that a BCC Presets folder will also automatically be deposited there once you open a BCC filter in the Vegas Red plugin. If the keys are not right for other things (e.g., Red workspaces, styles) you will also see second copies of those folders deposited in the Vegas installation.

I will be receiving my shipping copy in about a week so I'd be better equipped then to address what may be going on with the installer and why it failed in your case to generate the proper keys. I can tell you that I do have the beta installed for both Premiere and Vegas, and I'm using only one copy of the BCC filters and DE filters included with RED 3 for both instances as well as for the engine. So it can be done. But I definitely agree this is something the installer needs to do automatically.

>>>I should have clarified for you that you will find 3 Red files in your Vegas installation: two "little" dlls in the Vegas "Video Plug-Ins" folder named BorisRED3VVFL.dll and BorisRED3VVTR.dll and a "big" dll out next to the Vegas executable named "BorisRED3.dll" or something similar. It's this "big" dll that I was referring to when I told you to look for the RED dll file in the Vegas 4.0 folder next to the Vegas executable. This is "the" dll for Red in Vegas. The other two serve simply to make Red appear in both the "Transitions" and "Video FX" tabs of Vegas.<<<

No problem. However I should stress that there is no 'big" dll in the root Vegas folder for Red. As I mentioned there is one "big" DLL in the Boris Red 3.0 folder and the reg entries for the other plug-ins all direct to that. Should the installer have put that same DLL into the Vegas root folder as well? maybe that is also part of the issue? As I type that I am not sure if it would be because, as I mentioned, if I remove that "big" dll in the boris folder the VV plug-in than returns an error about being unable to locate that dll. So there is a pointer somewhere that tells VV to look in the boris red 3.0 demo folder.

But than again maybe this is only a demo thing - whatever issues there are with the demo installer might not be in the full installer.

<<However I should stress that there is no 'big" dll in the root Vegas folder for Red. As I mentioned there is one "big" DLL in the Boris Red 3.0 folder and the reg entries for the other plug-ins all direct to that. >>

I misread your previous post and thought you said your big dll was indeed in the Vegas folder. That is where mine is in my installation, and I put it there because I wanted it parallel with the Vegas executable. Again, I'm not sure how much more I can say on this due to NDA, as there was an explicit reminder of the NDA from a Boris rep when issues related to those we are discussing came up on list.

For now I suppose I should just leave it as is since you've found a way to access the Boris plugins from within Red/Vegas. Once I get and install my shipping copy so I can see firsthand what the installer is doing, I'd be happy to revisit this issue. If my memory will cooperate, I'll renew this thread at that time and share any additional insights I might come up with.

Best of luck.

filmy,

Just a newbie question.
The After Effects you installed, is it a separate plugin for Boris Red 3GL or a standalone version and then just copied the FX into Boris Red plugins folder.
Please excuse my ignorance.

>>>The After Effects you installed, is it a separate plugin for Boris Red 3GL or a standalone version and then just copied the FX into Boris Red plugins folder.<<<

if you mean the After Effects itself - that is not a plug-in, it is a program. If you mean the "AEX" than that is the plug-ins - after effects plug-ins. Boris will accept after effect plug-ins so, in theory, you don't need After Effects. RedGL comes with a set of After Effects filters that you have the option of installing. They don't install to the After Effects directory however they install direct to the Boris Red folder.

On the other hand if you already have After Effects installed, as I do, you can copy over the plug-ins to Boris to see if they work. The Boris RedGL install manual claims that only After Effects 3.1 filters are compatable with Boris. I think this is very outdated though because, as I mention, I tried my DFT Digital Film Lab plug-in and it works perfect. This is a filter set that came out this year so I don't think it was designed with AE 3.1 in mind. Or maybe I misread the manual - the exact quote from the install guide is "Boris Red does not support AE 4.x Flters. Only After Effects 3.1 compatible Flters will work inside Boris Red."

Not sure why the location of a DLL would violate NDA, but that is ok. As you say it is working. Thanks for the help.

Question for you, filmy:

What are the limitations of using the Red Demo version?
If it's crippled or watermarked, does it affect the AEX plug-ins too, or only the native Boris features?

If we just want to use Red as a way of getting access to After Effects plug-ins, can we save money by using the demo version?

>>>What are the limitations of using the Red Demo version?
If it's crippled or watermarked, does it affect the AEX plug-ins too, or only the native Boris features?<<<

Off hand I don't know if anything is crippled. it seems to be fully working. There is a watermark - actually an "X" is placed over the image and it does affect everything it seesm - including the AE plugs. However, and this is cheeky, I pulled over some of the BCC/DC plugs into the AE Plugs folder. THey load up fine except when you try to run them you get a pop up saying they can't be verified so you need to re-install. But wait - the DC filters seems to work fine - Day For Night, Electric Arc and Fire. So the overall answer is - its a demo and it does what a demo does - it demos. Try everything out, it seems to allow for render/save just fine, and look at it with the "X" .

Perhaps "Tim at Boris" could come into this thread when he finds the time to get away from his salesman posts on other threads and offer up some more details on what the demo lacks, or doesn't. Surprised he didn't offer up any tech advice on this thread. That is why Beta testers rule - they aren't sales people, they actually use the bloody product!!! What a concept. :)

Would be nice if they came out with a Boris lite version. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm not really into super fancy text or 3D effects. I would jump on a version that did just retroscoping, layers, complex masks, the things Vegas currently lacks... IF a reasonable price. $1,500 or whatever it is is simply too pricy for me.

Isn't Boris FX really Red Lite? Current version (6.1) doesn't support Vegas, but looks like it allows at least some AE plug-in support.

I expect FX version 7.0 will support Vegas, like Red and Graffiti do.

I'll jump in here but the thread is a bit long to digest it all.

When you install Boris RED in installs into the c:\program files\Boris Fx, Inc folder.

A subfolder called Borisplugins is also created. Any AEX plugs need to be installed there for RED to pick them up automatically amd make them available within the REd engine and the Vegas plugin. They both reference the same reg key for plugs.

If you have after effects installed and want to pick up existing AEX files I think you need to copy yhem to the borisplugins folder.

The Vegas plug is instaled into the Vegas\Video Plugins folder so vegas can find it and make it available.

AE plugs will work within vegas but not all of them there can be limitations to the AE interface within RED i.e. steadmove 3d which needs two passes springs to mind as a possibility.

Did that help?

PAW

BB said:
>>>I would jump on a version that did just retroscoping, layers, complex masks, the things Vegas currently lacks... IF a reasonable price.<<<

I kind of agree because I think there are a lot of things in Red that are beyond what a lot of people would use. Like I said - for me it is the ability to use AE plugs in VV. But the price is a lot of money "just" for that, especially when Satish has said in the past he was working on a AE Plug-in adapter for VV...free I would guess. Plus - a lot of what Red offers seems redundant if you already own After Effects. I kind of like things to do one main thing and maybe a few other things - but more and more software is leaning towards trying to do it all. (VV falls into that category at times) If you watch the little promo films on the Boris site they push that fact. Problem is that more and more NLE's are also adding the same type of things built in, I have heard a lot of people here claim that you don't need After Effects because VV will do the same thing plus more. Boris Red is saying, in so many words, it can do what AE can as well. So if VV can already do what AE does and Boris Red can do what AE does than why bother getting either if you already have VV? (Sort of like Boris Red includes a plug-in for AE - isn't that redundant?) Because they can do things that VV can't is why.

Blah, blah, blah - but I agree with BB.

to PAW -

if you had read the entire thread you would have seen some of the things you mention were discussed. Namely that for whatever reason the plug-ins are not being found when you use the VV plug unless you also have a BorisPlugins folder in the root VV install directory. I am guessing you have the full retail version - so maybe this is just a demo installer issue.

Sorry ,that was the point of my post to let you now how the shipping version installed.

The beta plugin did not use the reg entries for plugins so it sounds like the case for the demo - which is also probably time limited not just the X bit.

PAW