Brittle 8mm Movie film

RalphM wrote on 8/10/2007, 11:14 AM
Received two 200 ft reels of 8mm film from a customer for transfer to DVD. I've never seen film in such bad condition. Brittle, shrunken and badly cupped. I scanned a few frames and judging from the autos, it's from the '30s. Must have been stored in an attic since then....

I've soaked this stuff for a few weeks in film cleaner, which did help, but it will still not feed properly through my transfer machine.

I remember seeing ads from transfer houses that used a roller drive of some sort, rather than the sprocket holes. I can't find one of these locations. Anyone familiar with this type of transfer?

Edit - I also remember seeing references to a "plasticizing" treatment but can't find that either...

Comments

Coursedesign wrote on 8/10/2007, 11:40 AM
Whoa!

You're probably dealing with nitrate film.

The "nitrate" part is cellulose nitrate, one of the two components of dynamite (the other is nitroglycerin).

This needs special handling, not just because it can self-ignite and burn without environmental oxygen.

See http://www.pictureshowman.com/articles_restprev_nitrate.cfm for a bit more info.
Former user wrote on 8/10/2007, 11:53 AM
Even if it isn't nitrate, film of that quality needs to be handled by someone who knows how to restore film. Otherwise, you will just end up making it worse and possibly impossible to salvage.

Dave T2
RalphM wrote on 8/10/2007, 12:44 PM
This is definitely not Nitrate film as, to the best of my knowlege, 8mm was never issued on nitrate stock.

The issue here is that the customer is not going to want to invest hundreds of $$ in having this film treated as an archivist might do it - just something to allow one trip through the transfer machine...

RalphM
Former user wrote on 8/10/2007, 12:51 PM
I understand. But if that one trip through the projector fails and you destroy the film, where are you?

Not a responsibility that I would want.

Dave T2
Coursedesign wrote on 8/10/2007, 12:58 PM
Just found out that neither 8mm nor 16mm was ever made on nitrate stock.

Here's one company that could probably do the job safely:

http://www.wheatlandomnimedia.com/cps/filmLabs/filmLabs_films.html
Serena wrote on 8/10/2007, 10:56 PM
Yes, the base of substandard film stocks was always cellulose acetate.
Serena wrote on 8/10/2007, 11:04 PM
To quote Kodak: "Common sorts of film damage are shrinkage, brittleness, buckling, scratching, and perforation damage. Nitrate and acetate films can shrink or become brittle or both, through loss of moisture, solvents, or plasticizer. Shrinkage and brittleness can be reversed temporarily; buckling is difficult to cure. Scratches can be minimized."

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar_syndromefilm base degradation[/link] for extra bad news.
RalphM wrote on 8/11/2007, 5:30 AM
LOL, just what I needed - more bad news.

Thanks to all for the inputs. I'm going to set a flatbed scanner in the middle of a set of film winders and capture several sample frames for my customer to review and see what she wants to do with these reels. (She doesn't know what is on these reels.)

I believe that one of the reels will eventually make it through my transfer machine with some temporary mods to the machine. The other reel is probably too far gone, but that's what happens with improper storage.

The old engineer in me wants to make this work, even though it's never going to get $$ compensation.
farss wrote on 8/11/2007, 6:59 AM
This might be of some help. I've never tried it as the whole idea of scanning in strips at the prices people are willing to pay was just too much to bear. I have seen people build automated systems to use scanners without using the sprocket holes.

I've also see some info on a film scanner build specifically for handling film with brittle base, again no use of sprokets.

In theory, even if the base has curled one could still get the images back off it but it'd take purpose built equipment to hold the film without flattening it while it was scanned. If it's really brittle trying to flatten it will likely cause it to fracture.

Good luck, I've kind of shared your frustation.

Bob.
Serena wrote on 8/11/2007, 7:45 PM
In general acetate base does not become inflexible, the major problem being distortion of the image (from frame to frame). However buckled film will not run through a projector (without damage) and the dynamic pressure exerted by the usual claw mechanism will rip sprocket holes. If the content is important it could be photographed frame by frame, and possibly flattened to a certain extent. It would not be difficult to build suitable equipment, but nothing would reduce the tedium of the job. I'd talk to someone in film archives (e.g. http://www.screensound.gov.au/preservation/decomposing_cellulose.htmlNFSA[/link]) before deciding on an approach. I've never scanned film with a flat-bed and would have thought resolution wouldn't be high enough; but I've not done that!

EDIT: you could look into documents listed at http://216.31.179.100/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?Search_Arg=restoration&Search_Code=FT*&PID=cUeXd8EATrJwtqWuVZO8Crzo&SEQ=20070811194935&CNT=10&HIST=1AMPAS[/link]
but I'd prefer to talk to someone engaged in the work.