Yeah, I emailed them. Good guys - got back to me straight away! it seems the issue won't be fixed for a few weeks yet so some projects are gonna have to wait a bit!

I have just posted the latest Drumagog update (3.09), which should fix all the Sonic Foudry problems.

Please let me know if there are any remaining issues.

The update can be downloaded from our site: http://www.drumagog.com/drumagog309.exe

Thanks,
Rim Buntinas
WaveMachine Labs

1. The Zoom out bug. You all know it, it's still here and it's a pain in the ass!

---> Small problem, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. SF, How's you're user base care level going?

2. Inexplicable lockups. This has been happening only since I got the UAD1, so be it a Vegas or combined issue I don't know - anyone else getting this?

---> by all other posts on V4, and V4 and UAD, I'm not sure why any of you would want this combo. why bang against the same wall you see others charging into? Don't you need to get work done?

Often after releasing solo when playing but sometimes seemingly random.

3. Crackle on small track no. 24bit projects... Usually when I'm mastering. Doesn't happen on bigger projects.

---> Mastering in V4?
Anyway...
I interpret this with ASIO usage with vegas.
Use V3 with the MME and .29 drivers with your dual deltas.
Let's pose this q: why do I see issues with acid and asio, yet NO (none, zero) problems with asio on all other applications? One is forced to translate this to ASIO usage in V4 in turn.
I think this is new territory for SF and the old MME with V3 should be used for GETTING WORK DONE without issue.

4. The strange event issue as documented all over. Yesterday where I had edit points around snaredrums, sometimes the snare drums disappeared!

---> I havn't seen this is V3 don't (won't) use V4. Use V3 and get your $ back on V4.

5. Sometimes after reboot (post lockup) the ASIO drivers disappear and it automatically reverts to MME... very odd.

----> use the acid40 drivers (billybk suggested) or .29 if you must...but i still say - V3 and MME's.

6. Tried out the Drumagog demo. What a disaster, it works the first time you install it, and crashes the entire Vegas project everytime you open it from then on... as soon as you try and look at an instance of the plugin or press play!

---> I don't use (nor plan to use) drumagog. Why do you need drumagog anyway?

7. The CPU usage seems to fluctuate quite a lot - surely if the same plugins are running continuously, the CPU usage should be more or less constant?

----> too many variables can play into this (OS streamining, plugin usage, asio drivers used, setup and usage.
Most issues I've diagnosed with clients has been due to user usage error and system setup error.

the goal is to build a DAW that's transparent - IOW, you're working instead of tweeking and figeting. Maybe you need to take it to a DAW specialist to check in on it all (so should Pipeline).

JoeD

who would be a bigger DAW specialist than those who have built and worked on systems since the beginning? Are there places set up? Ive seen the turnkey DAW systems, but they arent any better than building your own, they still have the same troubles as anything else when a new plug or update comes out

And why would you need drumagog???? Please get real! If it werent for that plug I wouldnt be using these stupid PC's in the first place. Aside from the fact that drummers only bring in hunk of crap drums with old heads and dont know how to tune them....

Please name one song in pop rotation without triggered drums

Hey pipe,

How about a short tutorial on how you[or anyone else]uses drumagog to fix up a tune. I've read up on it but haven't had enough time to focus on the execution. Would really help me out. Thanks.

Ed.

<<<And why would you need drumagog???? Please get real! If it werent for that plug I wouldnt be using these stupid PC's in the first place. Aside from the fact that drummers only bring in hunk of crap drums with old heads and dont know how to tune them....

Please name one song in pop rotation without triggered drums >>>

Holy shit...
what?
You "get real" !

I for one havn't seen a need to trigger jack squat. The drummers I've seen come in with decent kits - to whacked out toys, playing skills from good to flipping awesome, come with little argument on the engneering end of things, and are rehearsed.

What or who are you getting in your studio? Are these just buddies with an interest?

I'll tell ya my approach: I rarely take on your average, young and cocky, self absorbed, no chops\no feel\no clue musicians. In other words - your average Pearl Jammy\Metallic-ie, rock wannabe.
There's enough bad butt-rock to choke a yak anyway along with studios to churn it out.
Unless the music is thoroughly new and interesting I'll send them elsewhere.
I leave no room for recording to be allowed reason for their ineptitude.

Triggering THAT much? You need some CLIENTS man.
So yeah - I say again, fuck drumagog. Get at least one real player a month and you'll see what I mean.
What's next?...guitaragog?, bassagog?, saxagog?, washboardagog?

As for the DAW: if it's working well - then you did a fine job with it. No need to get it checked.
Is it working now?

JoeD

"Holy shit...
what?
You "get real" !

I for one havn't seen a need to trigger jack squat. The drummers I've seen come in with decent kits - to whacked out toys, playing skills from good to flipping awesome, come with little argument on the engneering end of things, and are rehearsed.
What or who are you getting in your studio? Are these just buddies with an interest?"

Ok then

like I said in the other thread where you keep questioning what it is I do, well there you go

I run a professional commercial recording studio. A very hi volume of clients. If you understand a commercial studio, you realize you DONT get to choose your projects. Bands come in that cant play, tune their instruments or even bring in dead instruments

You DONT have a choice. You will understand that if you run a studio

there is no argument, this is how it IS

"I'll tell ya my approach: I rarely take on your average, young and cocky, self absorbed, no chops\no feel\no clue musicians. In other words - your average Pearl Jammy\Metallic-ie, rock wannabe."

Right, well since I run a recording studio and dont have an alternate means of income, I MUST take all comers. You do what you want, I am only interested in what the Professional needs

This is why sometimes we dont understand each other. I run a recording studio, my needs can be QUITE different than yours. Things must work, at all times, and be super versatile, for whatever might come thru the door

"Triggering THAT much? You need some CLIENTS man.
So yeah - I say again, fuck drumagog. Get at least one real player a month and you'll see what I mean.
What's next?...guitaragog?, bassagog?, saxagog?, washboardagog?"

You know what? I bet it is coming to that! Everything is already autotuned to death in this age

BTW I am quite well known for the drum sounds I get, I HATE having to trigger more than you would imagine! But that is REALITY

Again I ask, name one pop song in rotation without triggers...please

"As for the DAW: if it's working well - then you did a fine job with it. No need to get it checked.
Is it working now?"

sort of, are there REALLY places that can help?

You know what? I bet it is coming to that! Everything is already autotuned to death in this age

Hey, I get people who actually sing like the've got auto plugged into their freakin' vocal chords. Yikes, I must say that coming from the analog world of Studer A800/827 I find it difficult when people want to save 20 takes of a guitar solo or punch relentlessly. It's great to do it, but I have more clients w/average ability and big dreams that pay me good $$. I can't imagine what these people would do if they had to wait for an 800 to loop the punch point. (Maybe learn to Play?)

Wow then "holy shit" still applies.

You MUST have your system running well now then...right? (this in regards to past DAW problems I read from you...where it sounded like it was a home studio and being down for so long didn't put a crimp in things).

Or did you have several systems to choose from?

Oh Pipe, I'm a VERY small home studio that chooses who to work with.
I can't believe your having to trigger that much - how insane.
Where are you located btw? (I'll make sure to avoid that area with a purpose).

There should be a pre-req now for fuckin morons who want to record before learning a goddamn thing. Forget musicianagog....THAT seems more reasonable and it would also cut down on the shit being put out everyday.

But, on the flipside...it must be like taking candy from babies ($).
If you're happy doing it, then cool. I'm just amazed you can keep your composure that long and not jamming vic firths up every drummers a$$ while giving loud disertations on WHY THEY SHOULDN'T BE THERE :)

When do you get to concentrate on sound, etc? Triggering can be a lenghty process depending on the tunes. If the drummers are that bad...then geez, what about the others?
Ouch!
No offense, but I don't wanna be in your shoes.

Take that money though man! Raise your rates too!
There's the tit for that tat.

JoeD

>>Again I ask, name one pop song in rotation without triggers<<

I can't name one because its just so painful to listen to what's on the pop rotation that I typically try to avoid it unless I absolutely have to. That being said, I do know that currently way less triggering is happening with studio drummers than a few years ago. One well known drummer in Nashville said recently that its rare when his drums are triggered. Whereas not too long ago, virtually every session he did used some sort of triggering or sampling. The drum sounds got REALLY boring! Of course the same can be said about a lot of the drum sounds today but I don't want to get started on that one. . . ;-O

drbam

Please forgive the dumb question, but what is triggering?

Thanks.

Replacing real drums with samples. You use the real drum to "trigger" the sample.
Steve S.

Pipe,
I feel your pain. I've lived it. I was self employed for 3 years and worked for others another 5 doing the samething of, take every Joe that walks in the door. I haven't had quite the crappy players coming in as you. When I did my skill level on my engineering drastically reduced to meet their playing level. I didn't have quite the ambition as you to go all out on my skills to polish a terd. I've used triggering of samples for quite a long time. I did a rock album 7 years ago and the band was quite talented. When the band has talent, that's when I whip out the skills to put icing on the cake. I recorded the drums and then triggered snare and kick samples, to give them a little more punch. The band liked it so much and knew I had produced quite a few rap acts, so they asked me if I could put that low deep bass Roland 808 hum along with the kick. I said sure no problem. I look back today and listen to a lot of rock stuff and notice that deep bass hum added almost everywhere. Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, POD. They're all triggering samples with the drums. I guess the point I'm making is that don't worry so much about fixing the performance. You do miracles for no talent, non-disciplined players, guess what your reward is? More no talent, non-disciplined clients.

Red

Yep, I’d quite safely say that at least 90% of the demos I’ve ever listened to have been absolutely dreadful. The sheer volume of unlistenable crap is mind-boggling. You hear the first 10 seconds of something and you know you are going to be in agony just trying to get through the rest of it.

Luckily I can afford to work extremely selectively. I think I’d be slashing my wrists otherwise.

If you find a genuinely good act you gotta give them everything you have though; they do more for your reputation and career than 1000 crap acts.

Its a rough market and I HAVE to eat, but no doubt about what you say

"When I did my skill level on my engineering drastically reduced to meet their playing level. "

This happens unintentionally too, I mean, if they suck, itll sure sound like the engineering skills were bad as well, but turd polishing is around 90% of the game around here right now. When was the last time you heard a song without autotune for instance? Pathetic. The 10% of big name bands that DO have skills are what brings bands to my studio....I THINK...but reading this quote:

"You do miracles for no talent, non-disciplined players, guess what your reward is? More no talent, non-disciplined clients.
"

has me wondering!

The arizona scene in particular is really bad right now. We dont have "working musicians" in this town at the moment. I dont want to get into a huge political debate, but hiring illegals in this state has become rampant, even botique home builders and 500$ a plate restaraunts are hiring them. Our traditional "working musician" base here ( and probably everywhere else ) has either come from the food service industry or the construction industry, and at this moment in time, those are almost wholly staffed by these " guests ".

So the clients we get are either the biggies, working on a record company budget, or RICH RICH kids, whos parents are trying to live thru them. These kids spend a LOT more time practicing moves in front of a mirror than they do actually playing their instruments. The silver lining is that, on more and more occasions now I have to pick up my guitar and lay their parts for them. I thought I was done playing YEARS ago, and had gotten really crappy, but now, from all this ghost playing, Im starting to pick up some skills again! Maybe we all oughtta get together and do a " Vegas Users Internet Collaboration Album". I got the guitar, JoeD's got the organ, what else do we need?

I'm a drummer pipe, but my playing has gone the way of the midi Gods. Most drummers hate samplers and drum machines. There's nothing more that I liked than micing my drums up and recording samples of my real drums and fitting all the sounds on one zip disc, rather than cleaning the dust off my Zildjian cymbals every week and lugging my drums from one side of the room to the other. It's a lot easier moving around a zip disc than 150lbs of hardware.