c300, 5d Mark3, and Vegas 10

Metrolens wrote on 9/10/2014, 12:36 PM

Hi all, I have a project with c300 and Canon 5d Mark3 footage. Are there any specific settings I should use in Vegas for this footage?

Pixel Format? Should I set it to 32bit floating? The c300 shoots 8-bit, and I believe the Mark3 does too - so is this necessary?

And is there any disadvantage to using Vegas 10, rather than say Adobe Premiere CC, for a project with media of this kind? Am I somehow more limited in file type or quality that I can output from Vegas 10?

Thanks in advance.

Comments

videoITguy wrote on 9/10/2014, 1:06 PM

You are essentially asking more questions than space on this forum allows. I would question and want to know more about your background handling such a project, your experience with NLE's and your desired intentions.
1) Do not use VegasPro 10, 11, or 12 for this project - either use 9.0e or better VPro13.
2) Your footage has already been shot, that will determine what your project settings ought to be along with desired output intention.
3) Adobe Premiere CC may handle your process, and your intentions differently but not necessarily better than other NLE's.
4) 32bit mode is for complex compositing on VegasPro - not for overall project setting.
Doubt you will even touch it - unless compositing is a major part of your intentions.

Metrolens wrote on 9/10/2014, 1:22 PM

Ok thanks. Can you answer the Pixel Format part of my question?

-The c300 footage shows up as Bit Depth 16, Color Depth 32.
-The 5d III shows up as Bit Depth 16, Color Depth 12.

I noticed that the colors/grading of the footage are very different if I swich the project's Pixel Format setting from 8-bit to 32-bit. Which one is the correct one to use?

astar wrote on 9/10/2014, 2:00 PM

The C300 records in a Canon codec - 50 Mbps 4:2:2 codec - Which is basically the same thing as XDCAM 422. I think Canon must have licensed the codec from Sony, and did not want to appear to be aligned and so gave it a proprietary name.

The 5D records in ACV 4:2:0 - I would choose a codec to work in, and possibly convert the 5D files to XDCAM 422 and work in that space. Color correct in 32-bit color (video levels), then switch back to 8-bit to edit, render back in the 32-bit video levels setting.

videoITguy wrote on 9/10/2014, 2:11 PM

I don't think working in the 32bit mode is going to be a lot of advantage for an outcome - unless it's justified by your output destination. For example to the web - don't use it.
For broadcast prep - maybe.
Your 5d souce is your limiting file type and its going to create a handicap for mix of the program in eventual results.
Again if you have severe compositing requirements in the timeline, then use 32bit only for the sub-project portion of the overall program. Using it otherwise can prove deadly to your scalp.

Metrolens wrote on 9/10/2014, 2:26 PM

Thanks to both of you.

Why did you recommend not using Vegas 10 for this project? I have all the footage loaded in and everything seems to be playing back and working ok. Is there a distinct advantage to Vegas 13 that would apply in my case?

videoITguy wrote on 9/10/2014, 2:42 PM

codecs in Vpro 10 are handicapped, and app as a whole not for 64bit

In Vpro13, built in color correct to match a setting, built-in proxy editing, better codec implementation across a better videocard preview , and full 64bit

Metrolens wrote on 9/10/2014, 2:51 PM

Thanks again. Perhaps it's time to upgrade.

One thing - I am using the 64 bit version of Vegas 10. So without a lengthy explanation, is what you're saying still true? Is Vegas 10 64-bit actually not "full 64bit?"

A related question - I'm using an old video card. (Nvidia Quadro NVS 285). Should I consider upgrading it before undertaking this project? Any suggestions for an inexpensive Dual monitor Card that will work? For instance, how about this:
http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-02G-P3-2639-KR-GeForce-2048MB-Graphics/dp/B008Y8PON8/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=1-4&keywords=dual+monitor+video+card

farss wrote on 9/10/2014, 3:10 PM

[I]"I have a project with c300 and Canon 5d Mark3 footage."[/I]

What is your project?
Is it a 5 minute music video shot over a weekend or a 60 minute nature documentary shot over a year?
Does this project involve a real crew, does it have a producer, a DP and a director, who has creative control?

[I]" And is there any disadvantage to using Vegas 10, rather than say Adobe Premiere CC, for a project with media of this kind?"[/I]

The answer to that depends on answers to the questions above.

Bob.

Metrolens wrote on 9/10/2014, 3:13 PM

farss, it's a series of 3-4 min episodes, destined for web.
Yes to all the other questions; it's a real project.

Metrolens wrote on 9/10/2014, 3:26 PM

Regarding Video Card choice, I see that Vegas 13 requires Open CL. Does this other card satisfy?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0086UXQES/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

farss wrote on 9/10/2014, 3:34 PM

[I]" it's a series of 3-4 min episodes, destined for web."[/I]

Then you shouldn't have any technical issues getting it done in Vegas although as other have hinted at I'd use either V9 or V13. Everything in between does have a reputation for being a bit wobbly especially with footage from the 5D.

One technical caveat here is, only if you're doing all the post work. If the project has to go out for colour grading or mixing then Vegas will challenge you.

[I]"Yes to all the other questions; it's a real project"[/I]

Here's where it gets political.
If you use Vegas and you've got the producer looking over your shoulder you may have to justify your decision to go with Vegas. Choose a NLE from Adobe, Apple or Avid and that question doesn't arise.

Bob.

Metrolens wrote on 9/10/2014, 4:43 PM

Good points. I am going to iron it out with the producer before heading down the Vegas path.

Can anyone comment on the second video card I posted? Right off the bat, will it make the Thumbnails in the Project Bin render/appear faster? This is something that has always bothered me about every version of Vegas I've used: slow-to-appear Thumbnails in the footage list.

videoITguy wrote on 9/10/2014, 4:54 PM

Metrol...as you have been queried further in this thread - you keep upping the ante which makes me even more concerned about your true NLE experience.

64bit app did not mature for VegasPro until the last release build of VegasPro12 - so do not use 10, or 11, or 12 - VPro13 is a beta version of the last 64bit build which has proven to be more stable.
As for verifying a videocard - it cannot be done - too many variables - see other recent threads.

Sitting in front of a producer is not a pleasant experience without taking into account a lot of working politics...farss recommendations are well intended to help you sort this out.

OldSmoke wrote on 9/10/2014, 5:20 PM

As for video cards, neither are a good choice. Newer cards, go for a R9 270, 280, 290 or if you don't mind getting a used one, get a GTX580 from eBay.
Another good card is HD6970 and I think you can get even new ones.

These are all much faster then what you had proposed.

Metrolens wrote on 9/10/2014, 5:32 PM

Ok thanks - I'm not sure exactly what about my posts has you concerned. I have a quite a lot of NLE experience and am doing my due dilligence now to see how a Vegas workflow would limit the project.

I downloaded the Vegas 13 trial, and so far I really like its performance. Playback is noticably smoother than v10 - which again is only using an old nVidia Quadro NVS 285 card. It's so smooth that I'm not sure why I even need a new video card. Thumbnails load significantly faster than Vegas 10 too.

Old Smoke, regarding video cards, why would the second one be not a good choice? It's 1/2 to 1/3 the price of the cards you suggested, supports Open CL, has 20x the memory of my current video card, and is extremely highly rated. It might not be the perfect card for NLE... but wouldn't it still be a HUGE improvement over what I'm currently running?