I just bought a Sony HDR-CX7. This a very small AVCHD HD camcorder that records directly to a Sony Memory Stick Pro Duo - 8 GB in my case.

I have managed to edit the CX7 AVCHD using Vegas 8.0a and an antique 1.9 GHz Pentium 4. Rendering is very slow (1/25 of real time or so). Playback from the timeline is at about 1 frame per second.

Sounds terrible doesn't it?

But it's not. The Vegas render to Blu-Ray on a DVD disk is flawless. I've used Nero to generate Blu-Ray playable disks with simple menus from the AVCHD files. Transfer of the AVCHD files to my PC is a snap. I can play the CX7 HDMI output directly to my Sharp LCD HDTV. I can plug the Memory Stick into my PS3 and play the clips with the PS3 remote. (Yes, the PS3 can play native AVCHD files.)

And the video quality is, IMHO and compared to my TRV-900 SD camera, simply phenomenal. The nice thing about AVCHD is that the final rendered Blu-Ray product has the same video quality as the "raw" AVCHD. This is such a jump up from the normal DV to DVD quality loss that you have to see it to believe it.

My message: Don't be afraid of AVCHD. Download some AVCHD clips in their native .m2ts format and have a go at editing them. What you will see is about what you will get with the CX7.

You could also convert them to Cineform or use gearshift to make proxies of the files as well.

j razz

I'd like to stay near $1k. My plan is to capture and preserve clips in HD for the future, even though, initially, I'd be burning in SD.
Is there any advantage to units that record to a miniDVD versus HDD?
I see that a new Panasonic (?HD5) is packaged with a DVD burner; is there any need for that when I have burners in my PC?
Thanks,
wikksmith

I will throw in my recommendation for the Canon HV20. 1080 24p baby! Plus, you can use a 35mm adapter and get some very nice video.

www.hv20.com

"I will throw in my recommendation for the Canon HV20. "
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Funny... everybody goes gahgah over the HV20.... I don't.... I think it comes close to crap.

The PQ is about the best in the consumer cam market... but that's all it's got. I have the HC3, HC7 and the HV20, and I'll take the Sony's and leave the HV20 in a heartbeat. The casing is cheap. The toggle switch is lose and wobbly. The lcd screen is noisy with grain. The motor noise can be picked up on the tape.... the entire cam is built stupidly cheap, and not well thought out either. For example the hand strap at the rear is attached to the door instead of the casing. This means that part of the weight of the cam is sitting on the clasp that holds the door closed. And the capture problems I have with it.... talk about finicky!

Canon hit the nail on the head with the picture quality of this cam but they totally lost it with the build quality of this thing. My Sony cams don't QUITE match the PQ of the Canon (not that the picture quality is bad on the Sony's), but they sure as heck are built a HELL of a lot better!!

I have had my HC3 for almost 2 years and it's been used pretty hard and still no signs of problems. My HV20 on the other hand (less than a year old) and already I am starting to have some mechanical problems... like the auto lens cover sticking sometimes for one.

If I had to do it again.... I would take the SMALL hit in the PQ department and get another Sony.

Funny thing is I had a HC3 previously and feel the same as you about going from the HC3 to the HV20. I feel the HC3 was poorly thought out with no mic inputs.

Id put anything I shoot from the HV20 up against anything shot on Sony HXc cams and be happy with it.

I loved my HV20 - until tonight. 45 mins of family Xmas footage wasted by dropouts. So bad the tape eventually stopped playing altogether. I've never had a unplayable mini-DV tape (Panasonic AMQ's BTW) and never had a camera that has so many dropouts. I've cleaned the heads several times but it's very dispiriting. Can't wait for a solid state camera that shoots 24p / HDV. This tape thing blows.

24Peter,
Sounds like the Canon heads are clogged.
My choice is still the HighDef Sony Cams, mpeg2 tape based.
I also only use Sony HDV or Sony Premium tapes, never any dropouts staying with the Sony tapes.

"I loved my HV20 - until tonight. "
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Well that's MY concern with this thing..... premature failure. I didn't buy the extended warranty either. It's already presenting some mechanical faults. They say build quality isn't that important..... until it dies.

I in fact tried to sell my HV20 a while back. I had a real potential buyer too. But I made the mistake of showing him my HC7. He was not impressed with the noise on the Canon lcd when compared to the Sony.... he walked away from the sale. :(

Well, Picture quality is kind of a bottom line. HV20 is not really that poorly built, and better PQ makes it the only choice in under or around $1000 range.

One HC7 = $1000

2 canon HV20 = $1350

If one breaks you could just buy another one, better picture is worth $350 extra.

Depending on your budget, in order of affordability go with the SONY Z1, EX1, or F23.

I have an FX1 and an HC3. Both are great cameras. The HC3 can do a microphone input via a $20 adapter that sits on the Sony flash mount. BHphotovideo has them.

Thanks for all the feedback!
I still have one question: other things being equal, which type of recording/storage format is best for getting the material into Vegas; hard drive? memory card? mini DVD? or does it not matter?
Thanks,
wikksmith

MemoryStick on the CX7 (US/Japan NTSC countries) or CX6 (PAL countries) is faster than realtime for ingest. Media management works well too, fwiw. AVCHD and MPEG-2 off the camcorder goes well. The Sony Corp camcorder tools are more fluid than Vegas manages for playback of AVCHD but that should help give you some assurances that AVCHD performance ought to improve inside NLEs in the next few months or years.

Personally, I copy the files to my hard disk and then run out MXF proxies of the clips. These are then archived to DVD. I lose the surround sound in by shifting to this professional format but I keep the AVCHD files on the PC anyway (which is itself backed up to another PC elsewhere). Once I have a set top box that can play AVCHD then I'll ensure I archive those rather than MXF. But Sony MXF looks like it may be quite a bit more popular for the next few years.

Sony MXF (in 1440x1080i) is quite editable on a mediocre PC and I can kid myself that I'm experiencing what XDCAM HD folks are enjoying today natively. I chose it over HDV because, well I really had no HDV kit anyway.

Smooth Slow Record (Slow Mo) on the CX6 is a nice function IMHO, but needs extra light and can look a little soft with the resolution reduction that is imposed due to the speed/size of the internal dynamic memory on the camcorder.

It is very much a family orientated point and shoot 'vacation camera' or ideal for high altitudes or rough and tumble sporting side-shooter work. It is almost bereft of decent access to manual controls but it is about par for the course at this pricepoint. The touch screen helps over the previous choice of providing multi-function buttons, but not by a large margin.

If you are not sure- borrow, rent or buy with an exchange agreement.

It is good to know what the typical use/environment that the camcorder will be used for prior to giving advice. The above isn't so much advice as my attempt to build on a previous post suggesting the CX7. It is a nice soda-can camcorder with NO TAPE and very few moving parts on the unit to worry about at all. Not having to run the gauntlet of a firewire interface is also a primary purchasing benefit for me to relax with.

I hope you enjoy what you select.

I recently purchased an HC7. I'm really happy with it. Other than a few setup issues that I caused, it has been great. I was concerned with PQ while taping dog agility events. Had my first opportunity to do some taping with fast motion dogs. Captured in vegas, did a few edits, rendered back to m2t, brought into in movie factory and authored an HD DVD. It look amazing.

I have had no issues (other than my ownlack of knowledge) with capturing, editing, etc. using the HC7!

Galen