Can't Import XAVC from PXW-X70 into Sony Vegas

audiocrest wrote on 9/30/2014, 10:20 PM

I just received my Sony PXW-X70 and was eager to import XAVC 50Mbps (MXF) footage into Sony Vegas Pro 12. I ignored the negative comments I saw on the Web about importing into Premier and Final Cut but since I have Sony Vegas 12, I figured that I'd be okay. Guess what? Sony Vegas Pro 12 does not recognize file. I get an error statement. This is a file which was being read from a Sony SDXC 64 GB Class 10 UHS 3 94MB/s card. I also tried to importing the MXF file using the device explorer in Vegas. Nothing.

As a test, I created an AVCHD file and that was easily imported and recognized in the device explorer. I should also add that I borrowed a Sony AX100 for a day and shot XAVCs footage and easily imported that into Vegas. But no luck with the pro-grade XAVC.

So I read the literature for Sony Vegas Pro 13 and it states that it I/O XAVC and XAVCs files so I figured that I would purchase an upgrade and all would be good.

The same exact error occurred in Sony Vegas Pro 13. The NLE software will not import the XAVC file. At this point I am pissed. $2300 for the Sony X70 and $150 for the Vegas upgrade to 13 and I can't import and edit footage shot with Sony's latest XDCAM using Sony's latest NLE! Shame on Sony. Actually, shame on me for trusting Sony.

Naturally I send an e-mail to Sony's creative software tech support. As I write this, 7 hours have passed and no word from tech support except an e-mail stating that they received my question.

Now I consider myself a tech-savvy person so I wasn't giving up so easily. After researching some more on the Web about this problem, I found several recommendations for a program called Brorsoft Video Converter. This seemed like it could be the answer. You can download a free trial version and purchase it for $35 if memory serves me correctly. Unfortunately, after several unsuccessful conversion attempts I sit here sharing my negative experience with you.

Sony moderators report this MAJOR problem to their engineers fast and get this problem fixed. Because another day or two of this BS and I am will gladly be posting my thoughts everywhere on the Web. That includes every forum and distributors comment section (BH Photo, Adorama, Amazon, etc...)

It's a shame. I like Sony and have migrated away from Canon. I've been using Vegas since it first came out and own several of their cameras (FS100 & RX100) Is it too much to ask for their products to integrate seamlessly?

PLEASE HELP!

Mark K.

Comments

mountainman wrote on 9/30/2014, 10:45 PM

The high bit rate footage is Long gop (I think). Looks to me like at the moment vegas can not edit the files. Even with the lack of 4k I was looking strongly at this cam. But it is of no use if I cant edit the footage. j

Rob Franks wrote on 9/30/2014, 11:08 PM

"I've been using Vegas since it first came out and own several of their cameras (FS100 & RX100) Is it too much to ask for their products to integrate seamlessly?"

Well... I hate to say it but Sony and SCS (Sony Creative Software) operate like two completely different entities. Clearly Sony does not pay much attention to SCS and often leaves it out of the loop. As a result SCS always seems to be at least 6 months to a year behind with its "seamless integration".

Could well be one of the reasons Sony is hurting these days... left hand not paying attention to the right on too many levels.

farss wrote on 10/1/2014, 12:01 AM

Have you tried using SCS's Content Browser to rewrap the footage into an MXF container?

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/contentbrowser

It used to be free but I see SCS are now asking $20 for it.

Hm, we just got the X160 which records the same way I think, I'll see if I can shoot something with it and see how that goes.

Bob.

audiocrest wrote on 10/1/2014, 8:11 AM

To mountainman:

Yes. This XAVC is in the Long GOP format wrapped in an MXF file that won't import into Vegas. The X70 AVCHD files import nicely but I bought the camcorder for 422 10bit footage not 420 8bit AVCHD

audiocrest wrote on 10/1/2014, 8:18 AM

To farss

I doubt that the XAVC MXF will import using Sony's Content Browser 2.0. If you look at the fine print in the middle of the page under Features, there is an asterisk that states "* with some limitation for NXCAM clips ** XDCAM (MXF) & XDCAM EX (MP4) clips only (XAVC / NXCAM not supported)".

XAVC not supported!

This is why I tried the Brorsoft Video Converter, which did not work either.

I'm curious about your X160 footage (XAVC Long GOP 50Mbps) and if the MXF imports into Vegas. Please let us Sony users know how you make out.

Marco. wrote on 10/1/2014, 8:21 AM

Could you maybe upload a small XACXC MXF sample from this certain camera?

musicvid10 wrote on 10/1/2014, 8:40 AM

[B]Please post complete MediaInfo readout for the files that are not working.[/b]
Also XAVCS sample to a file share (not YouTube!).

audiocrest wrote on 10/1/2014, 8:50 AM

"Could you maybe upload a small XACXC MXF sample from this certain camera?"

I will create XAVC MXF files from the PXW-X70 and upload to a Dropbox account and post the links in this forum after 7 pm EDT.

Mark K.

Han_sgp wrote on 10/1/2014, 9:11 AM

Mark you are not alone.

I downloaded some X70 xavc long GOP files and have no luck on both Vegas 12 and 13 on 3 different notebooks. Definitely an issue which Sony overlook. Shame on them

I have put on hold my purchase till Sony sort this out.

farss wrote on 10/1/2014, 3:15 PM

We're not alone it seems.

If one can trust Wikipedia, XAVC uses level 5.2 of H.264. It was [I]supposed[/I] to be supported in Vegas Pro 12 however the referenced Sony documents have been pulled by Sony.

Sony does have a plugin for FCP X, nothing for FCP 7, Oh My :(

In the interim the PXW-X70 will record AVCHD and the PXW-X160/180 will record MPEG HD420/HD422 all of which should work just fine in Vegas.

The X160 does go as high as recording XAVC at 112Mbps which as we worked out yesterday is a quick way to fill a 128GB SxS+ Card. Needing a $1,000+ card to hold 20 minutes of footage doesn't have a lot of appeal to me.

Bob.

audiocrest wrote on 10/1/2014, 5:01 PM

As promised here are the links to two files that I recorded with the Sony PXW-X70.
The subject (cat) and the camera settings are the same, both 1080p 24 fps. The only difference is that one file is recorded with the AVCHD codec at 24 Mbps and saved as an MTS file. The other file was shot using the XAVC-L codec at 50 Mbps and saved as a MXF file.

The problem is that Sony Vegas Pro 12 and 13 will not import the MXF file into the media bin or timeline. No problems with the AVCHD since that technology has been around longer.

Try to import these files and report your findings here. Right now the PXW-X70 is useless to me and others, I presume, unless I can import and edit the MXF files.

I've tried everything and am convinced that the XAVC-L files are not compatible with Vegas. This is not to be confused with the XAVC-S files.

Here are the Dropbox links.

AVCHD codec. MTS container (Size 25.4 MB)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108066085/Cat_AVCHD_1080p_24fps_24Mbps.MTS

XAVC-L codec. MXF container (Size 57.4 MB)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108066085/Cat_XAVC-L_1080p_24fps_50Mbps.MXF

Good luck!

Mark K.
Liberty Bell Films

Marco. wrote on 10/1/2014, 5:25 PM

Sorry, I could not open the MXF file with any video available.

OldSmoke wrote on 10/1/2014, 5:48 PM

Ok. I cant drag the MFX file into VP13 but I can open it with Catalyst Browse and export it to XAVC Intra 100Mbps which is fine with VP13&12.

NormanPCN wrote on 10/1/2014, 5:51 PM

It does not seem to be only Vegas having problems with the file.

Even VLC cannot read/play the XAVC MXF file.
VLC error message.

No suitable decoder module:

Avidemux 2.6 chokes as well.

MediaInfo report for anyone interested.



General 

Complete name : D:\User Data\Norman\Video Projects\temp\Cat_XAVC-L_1080p_24fps_50Mbps.MXF 

Format : MXF 

Format profile : OP-1a 

Format settings : Closed / Complete 

File size : 57.5 MiB 

Duration : 9s 510ms 

Overall bit rate mode : Variable 

Overall bit rate : 50.7 Mbps 

Encoded date : 2014-10-01 22:35:29.000 

Writing application : Sony Mem 2.00 

Writing library : Sony Mem 2.00 



Video 

ID : 2 

Format : AVC 

Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec 

Format profile : High 4:2:2@L4.1 

Format settings, CABAC : Yes 

Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames 

Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=6 

Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame 

Codec ID : 0D01030102106001-0401020201316001 

Duration : 9s 510ms 

Bit rate mode : Variable 

Bit rate : 46.1 Mbps 

Maximum bit rate : 50.0 Mbps 

Width : 1 920 pixels 

Height : 1 080 pixels 

Display aspect ratio : 16:9 

Frame rate : 23.976 fps 

Color space : YUV 

Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2 

Bit depth : 10 bits 

Scan type : Progressive 

Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.927 

Stream size : 52.2 MiB (91%) 

Color primaries : BT.709 

Transfer characteristics : IEC 61966-2-4 

Matrix coefficients : BT.709 



Audio #1 

ID : 3 

Format : PCM 

Format settings, Endianness : Little 

Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES) 

Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000 

Duration : 9s 510ms 

Bit rate mode : Constant 

Bit rate : 1 152 Kbps 

Channel(s) : 1 channel 

Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz 

Bit depth : 24 bits 

Stream size : 1.31 MiB (2%) 



Audio #2 

ID : 4 

Format : PCM 

Format settings, Endianness : Little 

Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES) 

Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000 

Duration : 9s 510ms 

Bit rate mode : Constant 

Bit rate : 1 152 Kbps 

Channel(s) : 1 channel 

Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz 

Bit depth : 24 bits 

Stream size : 1.31 MiB (2%) 



Audio #3 

ID : 5 

Format : PCM 

Format settings, Endianness : Little 

Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES) 

Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000 

Duration : 9s 510ms 

Bit rate mode : Constant 

Bit rate : 1 152 Kbps 

Channel(s) : 1 channel 

Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz 

Bit depth : 24 bits 

Stream size : 1.31 MiB (2%) 



Audio #4 

ID : 6 

Format : PCM 

Format settings, Endianness : Little 

Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES) 

Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000 

Duration : 9s 510ms 

Bit rate mode : Constant 

Bit rate : 1 152 Kbps 

Channel(s) : 1 channel 

Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz 

Bit depth : 24 bits 

Stream size : 1.31 MiB (2%) 



Other #1 

ID : 1 

Type : Time code 

Format : MXF TC 

Time code of first frame : 00:01:10:16 

Time code settings : Striped 



Other #2 

ID : 7 

Format : Acquisition Metadata 

Muxing mode : Ancillary data / RDD 18 

Duration : 9s 510ms 

Frame rate : 23.976 fps 



Other #3 

Type : Time code 

Format : SMPTE TC 

Muxing mode : SDTI 

Time code of first frame : 00:01:10:16

The CodecID is different than I have seen in AVC files. Transfer characteristics is different as well.

Gene Aum wrote on 10/1/2014, 6:01 PM

Media Player Classic Home Cinema plays the file.

Steve

farss wrote on 10/1/2014, 6:13 PM

Like everyone above no joy with the MXF file and V13.
I did run the MXF through the last free beta of IRT's MXF Analyser. It would appear that it's well formed MXF. From my reading of the wall of text the analyser spat out it could identify the audio streams but it found no entry for the video codecs, no surprise there.

I do understand your anguish and for us this is going to be a major issue with the X160. We have also been looking at the X70 as another option to offer. If our clients cannot easily get their footage into FCP 7 that's going to be a show stopper. It's one thing to tell people don't use certain options in a camera but I'd bet good money someone will not get the message and then there'll be tears.

Bob.

[edit]
Also tried the MXF file in Ppro CS5.5 and no joy there either. I don't have CC to try that.

OldSmoke wrote on 10/1/2014, 6:27 PM

In case someone missed my earlier post:

[I]Ok. I cant drag the MFX file into VP13 but I can open it with Catalyst Browse and export it to XAVC Intra 100Mbps which is fine with VP13&12.[/I]

So, it does open fine in Catalyst and it's fairly easy to transcode from there to an even higher bit rate XAVC 422.

videoITguy wrote on 10/1/2014, 6:41 PM

I am registered owner of Catalyst Browse at Version 1 and it seems this is exactly the situation for which it was designed. I really believe that most people will bypass the Browse Version and want the Catalyst Prepare for the long run.

Apparently the camera sales are leading the release of the Sony sponsored solution which is a bit of a mistake - also does not seem to be covered by a good promo program - be that as it may, I just want to assure you there is a reason out there.

audiocrest wrote on 10/1/2014, 7:41 PM

RE Old Smoke:

"Ok. I cant drag the MFX file into VP13 but I can open it with Catalyst Browse and export it to XAVC Intra 100Mbps which is fine with VP13&12.

So, it does open fine in Catalyst and it's fairly easy to transcode from there to an even higher bit rate XAVC 422."

Congratulations Old Smoke! This workaround is sound. I verified your suggestion by importing the 50 Mbps XAVC-L (Long GOP) MXF file into Sony's free Catalyst Browse 1.0 and transcoded the file into a 100 Mbps XAVC-I (Intra) MXF file. I then successfully imported the new XAVC-I MXF file into Sony Vegas 12. I put the file into the timeline and rendered a MP4 file (420 8 bit) and rendered a MOV (DNxHD 422 10bit) file as well.

This is quite a extensive workflow as compared to just dropping right into the Vegas 12 or 13.

I suspect videoITguy is correct with his comment "I am registered owner of Catalyst Browse at Version 1 and it seems this is exactly the situation for which it was designed. I really believe that most people will bypass the Browse Version and want the Catalyst Prepare for the long run."

For now this will have to do but Sony really has to get their act together fast. Especially with the FS7 coming out. This is not acceptable.

Thank you to all responses in this post. It was a pleasure learning with you.

Mark K
Liberty Bell Films

farss wrote on 10/1/2014, 7:47 PM

Confirmed, after massaging the cat with Catalyst Browse V13 loads the MXF file just fine.

Just so no one wastes time:
Catalyst Browse is available for free now for Windows and OSX.
Catalyst Prepare is not released as yet, it appears the asking price will be USD 100.

Browse requires registration, using the same email address and password as for here worked for me. It already appears under "My Software".
I'm not all that happy with the GUI this thing offers, finding the icon to export took some time but for free I'm not complaining and the Colour Curves work really, really well.

Bob.

audiocrest wrote on 10/1/2014, 7:54 PM

Here is the XAVC-Intra MXF file link which was transcoded with Catalyst Browse and works in Vegas.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108066085/Cat_XAVC-Intra_1080p_24fps_100Mbps.mxf

Mark K

videoITguy wrote on 10/1/2014, 7:56 PM

The summary of this thread has been moved to the Catalyst forum entry for future use.

Paul Anderegg wrote on 10/1/2014, 10:27 PM

I just received my X70 earlier today, and was disappointed to find that neither my Sony Vegas Pro 12 install, or my Mac FCP X installs would ingest it. FCP X is my main work platform, so I tried downloading both of the browser programs, but the only option it gives a Mac user for transcoding the 720p60 XAVC is various forms of 720p for Apple Devices, 360p for web etc, and something called DXP or some such weird acronym.

I have had to switch the camera to AVCHD, because there apparently seems to be no method to ingest XAVC into anything at this point. Maybe I will keep my CX900 in service for a little while longer, and let the X70 gather dust until it drops $300 in price around the time someone final makes it's 4:2:2 files editable.

Paul

[r]Evolution wrote on 10/4/2014, 7:37 PM

I had no problem importing and editing the files in to Premiere Pro CC 2014 Mac linked by audiocrest:

AVCHD codec. MTS container (Size 25.4 MB)

I stacked 10 video layers set to 50% opacity and varying degrees of color correction, speed changes, and never had a hiccup. The files appear NOT to have audio so I can't say whether it was audible/working or not. HDR-CX900 (with XLR handle) may be a better option for those with no intention to move to 4K or upgrade their workstation to handle 4K.

(very good quality footage with no discernible difference in the formats, & pretty cat)