Can't make up my mind: Font size for Subtitles - Arial (20?); 22 or 24

Cunhambebe wrote on 7/23/2004, 9:57 AM
After extensive tests, I've found out what "would" seem to be at least the best font and size for subtitles: Arial 22, bold, outline. It happens that some users around here say that 24 is better. I guess it's too big, but I may be mistaken.
Please, I was just wondering if there's anyone around here who can help me with this... No one seems to know what size the big studios use for subtitles as they author their DVDs. I guess that may be 22, bold, outline. Same thing happens with my questions at VideoHelp.com...sepulchral silence.....loll
Anyone? Any hint?
Thanks in advance, world of the living!
PS:
I printed 2 screens, one of them showing subtitles from BBC's Blue Planet, and the other one with the subs for my project. I opened both in Windows Photo Editor so as to compare them. BBC's outline is heavier and subs are slightly smaller than mine (maybe Arial "20", but bold for certain and heavier outline too). What do you think???
By the way, I know we can set outline and anti-aliasing color in DVDA properties window, but that makes me think of another posibility. We know that subtitles created with Vegas can be exported to DVDA as regions. Can we make the other way? I mean, exporting from DVDA to Vegas so there we can set text properties such as outline, etc.....and then finally export the outcome to DVDA? Thanks!!
;)

Comments

ro_max wrote on 7/23/2004, 11:34 PM
On commercial DVDs, the font and size (and color) of subtitles vary. Many do not seem to use anti-aliasing either. As long as the subtitles are clearly readable, I wouldn't worry about it too much. One thing to perhaps consider though may the type of viewing device, the subtitles will be shown on. On a small-screen TV, a larger font might be easier on the eyes, whereas on a large screen (e.g. projection) it might feel overwhelming, in particular at relatively short viewing distances.

One more thought. Why not include two subtitle tracks using different font sizes and let the viewer choose?

Just my 2 cents.

ro_max
Cunhambebe wrote on 7/24/2004, 8:07 AM
Thanks for taking time to respond.
You wrote: On commercial DVDs, the font and size (and color) of subtitles vary.
I agree, but there's something I'd like to state here: It doesn't matter too much bigger sizes since you cannot configure tracking. In fact DVDA does not let you configure "the room" between characters (what a pity!). I guess you can do this with Vegas, though. That's why my question on exporting subs to Vegas. Just open Media generator, select Kern fonts at.....(shouldn't it be tracking???) Other applics such as Boris Red call this, TRACKING. Anyway, I guess the final effect would be ALMOST the same: you can make "room" bigger or smaller among characters.
So, I'm sure subs size is important but this essential option (Kern fonts at / tracking) is missing....SONY shoud make this option available for DVDA.
Anyone else to help me out with this?
;)
Thanks
ro_max wrote on 7/24/2004, 12:50 PM
I agree that both Vegas and DVDA could be better at handling and formatting text. This apparently is not of too much concern to Sony though.
However, I'm not sure to what extent such a feature would improve the quality of the subtitles or their readability. So far, I haven't really worked with subtitles much, except for a few tests. But I am planning to provide a commentary track in form of subtitles (as opposed to an audio commentary) on a little project of mine. I think, I´ll give Arial size 22 a try and see if that works for me.

ro_max
Cunhambebe wrote on 7/24/2004, 4:20 PM
Thanks for taking time to respond. Yes, you're right. I recommend you try Arial 22, bold, outline. You're gonna like it! Anyway, you can test your project: if you have power DVD take a picture (there's a button on Power DVD for it) of your video with your subs and later, take another pic from a commercial DVD showing subs in french for instance. Save both files and open both with Microsoft Photo Editor to compare the sizes....good luck!
;)
bStro wrote on 7/24/2004, 9:41 PM
Just open Media generator, select Kern fonts at.....(shouldn't it be tracking???) Other applics such as Boris Red call this, TRACKING.

Are you using Vegas 5? 'Cause I am, and I have tracking and kerning...

Rob
Cunhambebe wrote on 7/25/2004, 6:56 AM
Oh my GOD. Thanks for showing how much stupid I am, Rob. I do apologize. There are so many buttons and so many appls around here that sometimes I do get lost. I'm getting old, that's it....lol
VEGAS 5.0 DOES HAVE TRACKING AND KERNING.....THAT'S GOT TO BE VERY CLEAR, FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....sorry
So, Rob, Do ya know how we can export subs created with DVDA to Vegas, so as to set correct kerning and tracking and then later export the subs finally to DVDA??????
Thanks for your help and thanks for correcting my remark on Vegas. ;)
bStro wrote on 7/25/2004, 7:43 AM
Keep in mind that the tracking and kerning I was referring to was for the media generator, since that was the feature that you used as an example in your post.

In regards to subtitles, though, the media generator is not used. When you export subtitles from Vegas, you're exporting the names that you have given your regions. Region names do not contain any formating -- no font choice, no size, no borders, no tracking, no kerning, nothing but the text data itself. And even if there were formatting information, the subtitles are being exported to a plain text file which, again, does not contain formating information.

Rob
Cunhambebe wrote on 7/25/2004, 5:19 PM
Thanks Rob, for letting me know that.
In fact I've never tried these so called regions with Vegas for making subtitles. So, according to what you've just written down, I guess it's no use to ask anymore for exporting subs to Vegas, isn't it?
Thanks again ;)