I'm not nearly so charitable. It seems it is ALWAYS the "audio only" bunch that are constantly bitching and screaming in this forum. Have my sympathy? Hell no, I wish they would grow up. Maybe SoFO could borrow a page from VCD Help and set up a off-topic forum for the whiners and cry babies that are never happy no matter what.

And Joey D, I got one question for you... when will YOU stop spreading your crap?

Hey,
Just get Vegas Video 3.0... I am sure you're going to appreciate it... It's simple, effective, neat and great to use... It's got more than Vegas Audio 2.0... And if there ain't no Vegas Audio 3.0, well what can I say? Well at least you can get the same results out Vegas Video 3.0... Just upgrade your copy of Vegas Audio 2.0... You won't regret it!
-André

I just came across an old Sonic Foundry catalog from (i think) about a year and a half ago. (aside: ... why don't companies put dates on their catalogs???? grrrrrrrrrrr!) Anyway ... Vegas Video was priced at $629.10/$699.00, and Vegas Pro (audio) was priced at $539.10/$599.00.

Current price on Vegas Video is $419.97/$479.96 ($179.95 upgrade from Vegas Audio). Vegas Audio 2.0 was $399.95 until recently, and now it's $279.97$319.96.

Considering how much the prices have gone down, i really can't even see any reason to complain about paying extra for the video features. The full version of Vegas Video 3.0 is cheaper than the audio only version was not too long ago.

"Vegas Audio" is just "Vegas Video" with the video side "turned off". In terms of developmental funds its wise for SoFo to just call it what it is and focus on the product as a whole. The time and money spent to lock the video features off to the audio only crowd could be better utilized in making a more stable/functional/etc... product. I can understand why people are pissed about all the advancements in the video end and lack there of in the audio side...but still what it got was pretty kickass...at least I'm happy with it. Like it was said in another post...the audio side is under development as we speak but any other info in terms of release dates to product specific upgrades cannot be discussed. It will get here soon enough.

When you here a name like Cubase,Logic,Sonar, you think of a audio editor. Well when you here Vegas you will think of a kickass audio/video editor...thats all folks.

>>Why can't SF admit that Vegas Audio 3 isn't going to happen?
>>
>>or for that matter...why can't SF confirm it will?

SF HAVE said that it will be unavailable. They may change their minds though ...

>>What. SF, are you guys asleep at all the meetings?

It depends on whether it's an afternoon or morning meeting I'm sure ...

>>Do you have these sorts of meetings?

Probably ...

>>Note:
>>There are persons who can handle the details like this. They are called "program >>managers"...they manage the process of completing a program\version. Might wanna >>look into hiring one of these guys(?).

They may be taking applications for this position ...

>>Other why's\what's:

>>- why isn't the ability to burn in CDarchitect fashion immediatley being offered >>to Vegas Audio users in an update?...like yesterday?
>>Vegas Video users can do this..but BEGAS AUDIO USERS CANNOT?

SALES ... SALES ... SALES ...

>>What have you guys been smoking in those meetings?...and can I get a drag (see if >>it helps me understand the plan of attack here)?

Jimsom Weed?

>>- even better, why isn't it just implemented into SF 5...the editor one might use >>before the burn? (ding-ding)

Good Idea ...

>>- Let's assume Vegas Audio 3 will exist....(hurumph)...what exactly will VA3 offer >>over VV3? If you can't answer these questions...then I ask... WHY NOT?
>>If YOU don't know this...WHO would?
>>This isn't plans for the new star wars missle defense...it's an audio tracker.


NOTHING ... Vegas Audio has never had anything that Vegas Video does not.

>>- What, in the name of GOD and all that is holy, is the reason for not splitting >>Vegas Audio from Vegas Video users in the forum? (or does one of the above >>questions already answer that?). It literally takes a few minutes.
>>Would you like me to do it for you (for free)?

I struggle with this one ... I am an Audio only user as well ... SF seems to be adamant about not splitting the Vegas forum, in fact I seem to recall one of the SF techs saying that it will NEVER be divided ... this only enforces the conspiracy theory that Vegas Audio will not be released ...

>>I'm sorry, but these are rather EASY and STRAIGHT FORWARD questions any company >>can and would answer. Does anybody agree with that statement at least?

They are easy and straight forward questions, but companies tend not to answer questions about future releases of products ...

Dear Mr.D-

You have pointed out, many times, that you are very unhappy with our products, strategies, pricing structure, forums, support, forum structure, forum users, and more. Your unhappiness with everything SF has been made public, by you, for several years now, in multiple forums.

To answer your question directly: There are currently no plans to release a separate, cheaper Vegas Audio 3 product with new audio features that you don't already see in the current shipping version of VV3. We believe Vegas Video 3 is a really versatile app at a really good price. If you do not like this or any shipping SF product you do not have purchase it.

Further: Our offer for a full refund for Vegas or any other SF product you've purchased still stands. We will give you your your money back and you can purchase a suite of apps from some other company- hopefully these other apps will be up to your high standards.

I am deleting some of your recent posts from our forums. If you continue to post rude and insulting rants, we'll lock you out.

Sincerely,
David Hill
aka SonicEPM
www.sonicfoundry.com

YOU GO SONIC EPM !!!
Bottom line . . .
Free country !!
Free to complain!
Free to NOT buy !
Free to not have to listen to the nonsensical ramblings of a sad and demented ridlin starved maniac who is not happy until everyone else is as angry and unhappy as he is.

GOD BLESS AMERICA !!!

And just a personal aside, I agree and disagree with a lot said here. Vegas Audio ? Vegas Video ? Just plain Vegas ? But again, bottom line is we aedealing with COTS (Consumer Off The Shelf) products here .NOT custom designed software. The way the process works . . .you like it ? You buy it. You don't like it ? You don't buy it. But at this level you don't get to customize it. At the same time. any good (and sucessful) company will listne to it's comsumers (if they want them to keep consuming) . .but it's all about $$$ and Capitolism dictates going with the desire of the masses.

OK, just my humble opinion. You may commence to tearing it apart !

Now....can we get back to the business of producing music and video ?

Unhappy with inability to reply on my questions = Yes

Unhappy with your products? Puh-lease.

1. I think you know dang well how many SF products I own....this reply is WAY off the mark Dave Hill. You know exactly how much I've invested in SF products and have continued to do so.
As a reccomended studio DAW builder in my area, I have also even-heartedly suggest your products over that of your competition with much success may I add...and still do.
This reply is uncalled for. A simple honest answer would have been the professional choice.

2. As for my past posts: I rarely post here...and you CANNOT SAY WITH AN HONEST FACE THAT MY POSTS CONSIST OF BASHING SF PRODUCTS AND OTHERS HERE. That is an all out lie (probably stemming from my persistence on obtaining a proper reply to CURRENT VEGAS AUDIO OWNERS).

So this is what it comes down to:
A SF product owner asks valid "WHY" questions on a product he paid top dollar for...and is subsequently "kicked off" for insisting on an answer to a basic question?

And what of the "angels" who replied to my questions here. Would you boot them off as well? I see.

So again I PLEAD for an response:

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE answer WHY the audio features in VVideo cannot be provided to your current VAudio owners (who paid top dollar into your VAudio product prior to any knowledge of VVideo mind ya).

Dave - it's a fair question. One that didn't deserve slamming and bashing from your current VVideo owners here. Can you grab thr reigns and supply a response?

thanks,
JoeD

You're preaching to the choir fosko. I've been an SF supporter from the mid-80's on up till present (and how long have YOU been in the game may I ask?)

Note: You're lame commentary on my "happy/unhappiness" factor will be ignored however. Pathetic fosko...nice try though.
You R cellophane!

Witty snipes don't apply to the question posed.
If you care to respond, please at least TRY and answer the question posed.

JoeD

You're price quotes are EXACTLY why I am asking these questions.
Many people DID pay those amounts...

We're talking about CD arch, foundry, vegas 1.0, vegas audio 2 owners who have paid PLEANTY.
And what do they get? Another bill?

After the fiasco of cd arch alone, after the lame cd burning foudn in SF 5...
customers deserve more.

what is wrong with you people? I'm not asking for "ALL" - I'm asking for the necessary "audio" (write audio a hundred times on the blackboard) features in a product we've paid for 3 fold.

It's quite simple.

JoeD

Upgrade to Vegas 3 if you want the new features. That's what the rest of us did. If you don't want to upgrade, then quit complaining.

(ps. It is industry standard policy to charge for upgrades.)

So basically Joey D is looking for a freebie.

I've been using PC software since the late 70's. In that time I've spent thousands of dollars. Lots on upgrades. Its been standard SOP for the software biz from the start. You want to point at finger a someone, try Microsoft. They probably can get credit for locking in the trend.

There is a difference between an update and a upgrade. The former may be free, the latter almost always costs something. I started out as a user of Video Factory. Many here in this forum did also. I paid for version one, I paid for version two and somewhere in there I paid for a upgrade too, all roughly within the space of a year or so then I JUMPED at the chance to upgrade to Vegas Video, because it was a good deal. Really.

Joey's beef seems to be he spent too much already so he's expecting a free handout. He justification is the very lame "I already spent a lot". As it has already been said countless times if you upgraded to Vegas Video at the deeply discounted price you would have made out like a bandit.

Yes, much of the Sonic Foundy line was priced higher back aways. Some people like Joey paid a lot. I like lots of others here could say the same thing about the upgrade cycle for Corel, Photoshop, Bryce, Dreamweaver, Flash, etc.. If some don't like it, then tough cookies. Nobody is standing over anyone with a gun to their head. Your choice, upgrade or don't. Endlessly whining over what boils down to a cost issue is inappropriate for this forum.

Hey unhooked on phonics,

I'm not looking for a freebie.

VAudio 3 AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN AS WAS STATED - we all know it...I want to hear from SF that it won't happen and why.

So knowing that we users of VA2.0, won't see the once promised update, then why in the hell can't the MINOR AUDIO updates of VV3 be put into VEGAS AUDIO 2?
In case you havn't noticed - there are some major VIDEO related additions in VV3 vs. prior releases. I'm not asking for this.... would go buy VV3 right now if that were the case.

Cdarch burning, master buss, improved plug-in support.

THESE RELATE TO AUDIO ONLY (show me how cdarch burning relates moreso to your video needs). WE USERS WHO BOUGHT "VEGAS"... ATE IT ON CD ARCHITECT....THEN BOUGHT "SF5"....THEN VA2 SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE THESE BASIC AND IMPROVED AUDIO FEATURES WITHOUT HAVING TO BUY VEGAS "VIDEO".
The master buss came about through bitchings from AUDIO users (Va2 users)..."why in the hell is there no master buss????" was the question of the day.
Improved plug-in support - PAY AGAIN FOR WHAT SHOULD BE AN OBVIOUS UPDATE - HANDS DOWN????

Getting any of this ladies? Did I lose ya again?

Freebie? It's basically what SF should've done with the
"screw the customer" approach they pulled with CD Architect. Go over to the CD architect forum and ask away genius. We all know the concenus on that one.

Promising burning in SF5 ? Ha! - a joke at best. That was the saddest thing I've ever seen in an SF product.

So yeah - I SAY AGAIN...I AIN'T ASKING FOR THE WORLD HERE or freebies. Just the minor audio updates the audio supporters of SF deserve.

So WVG, stick that where the sun don't shine (you know, the placeholder for your head).

BTW: have you guys even checked out what's being said about SF on many of the professional audio boards/reviews since it's management reorg (which is the exact time when you saw SF sticking their fingers in too many bowls instead of concentrating on what they do best)?
It ain't good fellas....and poor PR, product planning, testing, and customer support are the forerunners to the poor marks and reviews of SF.

And the nickel and dime games SF plays is EXACTLY why SF is getting the bad rap. Many are turning away and buying Sonar and Wavelab.
Wake up and smell what your shoveling fellas.

But did THIS kid not buy SF products? No. I supported SF.
I'm thinking maybe my decision there was a poor one after taking it in the "end" one too many times.

JoeD

What will it cost this VEGAS 1.0 - TURN VEGAS AUDIO 2.0 user
to upgrade to VVideo 3?

Any special price for SOMEONE WHO HAS INVESTED WAY TOO MUCH IN THE VEGAS LINE AS IS ????
Christ, this is a joke.
I should take a flamthrower to this place (in my best Pacino voice).

So what's to stop SF now. What's next in the next $200.00 update for VVideo?

- NEW IMPROVED HELP FILE !
- TIP OF THE DAY CAN BE SWITCHED ON OR OFF VIA KBD TOGGLES!!
- POSSIBLE GPF UPON LAUNCH IN WinXP FIXED !!!
- ADDED SPELL-CHECKER FOR TRACK NAMES !!
- NOW MORE CHOICES IN SPLASH-SCREEN GRAPHICS !!
- WAVES PLUG-IN SUPPORT ENHANCED

Can you tell me the main/major differences in VEGAS 1.0 VS. VEGAS AUDIO 2.0 THAT JUSTIFIED PAYING up to $600.00 TWICE?
(I know the answer, I wanna hear it from you though).

Look, like I said, when I build a DAW - whether it be for a large studio or the home studio enthusiast I reccomend/tout SF products.
Seeing the way they are doing business now...it's making it very hard to do this anymore. I have no answer as to why they shouldn't go with Cakewalk Sonar (which DOES offer these kinds of updates via FREE patches - AND DOES MIDI...WELL!).

I choose to use VA2 personally, but I can't raise argument anymore as to my clients.
It seems SF is creating it's own bad rep - you don't need my help there (and I remember when the SF name was tops in the game).

Oh well. It sure would be nice to hear from SF on the "whys" to the AUDIO ONLY related question instead of you video users (who are the most arrogant and biased group on the media software planet).

JoeD

JoeD, Your arguments are repetitive and tiresome. Your previous expenditures entitle you to nothing more than you received from Sonic Foundry: excellent software that functioned as advertized. They are not required to provide you a perpetual upgrade path or to support new hardware with an old product. I'm not interested in video any more than you but as a SF user I took advantage of the favorable upgrade pricing to VV3 and have been completely satisfied with everything about it. If SF has decided not to introduce a video-stripped VA3, so be it. Why should they make a special "limited" version of their software just to make you and a few others like you happy? Stop crying about the money you've spent. And stop trying to pretend that VA and VV are really different products. You know, Sonic Foundry knows, and the rest of us users have figured out that they're really not. Sonic Foundry has done a fine job of streamlining their product offerings by incorporating more functionality into fewer products at a reasonable price. This is the real world. Join it.

Well,
this REALLY seems to be getting no where. SF seems to has addressed the issue as much as they are going to. Joey continues to flame.

I don't necessaily agree or disagree with what's being said ... I just think it's gettingto the point of being mean, malicious, beating a dead horse, andmost of all unprofessional.

SF is free to do with their product as THEY see fit. If people don't like it, they don't buy it and they go out of business. That's free enterprise.

Joey is free to rant and rave and 'attempt' to bully . That's first ammendment(kinda :-)

I am free to hit ye olde IGNORE THIS USER button and concentrate on the positive that comes out of this forum. That's common sense.

JoeD, calm down your blood pressure's rising. Microsoft should have given me a free update to XP pro from Windows 2000 but didn't. What would Vegas audio look like as compared to Vegas video-the same without the video features? Is that what you wanted? I spent alot of $$$ back in the day with SF products too. I even tried Wavelab when cd arch was discontinued but I went back to cd arch (more $$$). This is just the way thing are with software-updates are usually free but when a new product comes out it will cost you. If you think SF is bad, deal with DVD authoring software. That's enough to make you look for the nearest bridge to jump off. You usually get Sonic's (not related to SF) MY DVD with your drive, find it's shortcoming & buy DVD-It SE to find what it lacks, go to DVD-IT PE for another $500 to find it to be just as buggy only to find out a much promised update coming some day & when it's here it's a 155 meg download that takes 11 hours to download. After all that & discussions with sonic they let you upgrade to Reel DVD for $699 more which they didn't even make but bought out the company Daiken which made far superior DVD authoring programs. So if you want to bitch SF isn't that bad after all & where did you see all the negative press on SF?

Do you work at SF Doug? I got a sneeking suspicion you do....but anyhoo.
The following isn't intended to try and make you look stupid" (don't need my help) but only to reply as to why I'm not EASILY buying into SF's latest marketing foray.

I don't care if ANY of this is TIRESOME to you Mr. REAL WORLD.
I'm just looking for an SF answer as for the AUDIO features we VAUDIO/foundry/cdarch owners should ALREADY HAVE. I have yet to see one.

I could sell my land in Florida to guys like you. It's not my fault you're complacent.

So, RIGHT NOW - what is the price for this user to get into VVideo3?
Tell me please.

This after buying Vegas 1, Vegas audio 2.0, and every Sfoundry update known to man...just to get what SHOULD ALREADY HAVE BEEN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

You know Doug, I don't know how long YOU have been an SF supporter...but I've been here with them from the mid-80's. That's a lot of history. AND $.

Would you mind telling me how long you've been an SF supporter (honestly)?

Now, why do you think I feel so strongly about the way SF is going about business these days - this "upgrade" included?
I'll tell ya why - I have sent MANY clients the SF route - and it makes MY buisiness look bad when I get complaints.
To add, IT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING SF USED TO STAND FOR. Prior managment never would pull this kind of "update" marketing scheme.
No. The little audio details WHICH FOLLOW THE VEGAS AUDIO LINE would've been a patch - while a new products cutting edge features would justify an new upgrade - or more likely a NEW PRODUCT LINE.

So what are we calling this product line - JUST "VEGAS" ????
Oh really???? - well it already was just "VEGAS"....the new improved SF nickel and dime marketing team decided to split off the titles - VEGAS AUDIO and VEGAS VIDEO.
Don't shoot the messenger.
Had we Va2 owners known that VV3 would be the only title to supply the necessary AUDIO features that should have already been in ...heck, I'll say it...SF5 !! (cdarch burning)...we never would have purchased this SF PRODUCT LINE CALLED VEGAS AUDIO and waited for Vegas Video3.

I already bought just "VEGAS" long ago if we're gonna put this under the microscope.

There is your REAL WORLD Doug. You're just complacent in it.

JoeD

"How come EVERYBODY ELSE is WRONG, and I'M the ONLY ONE who's RIGHT?!?"

I have a feeling SF selected the "IGNORE THIS USER" option by your name.

Yes - yes -yes...the DVD authoring software can be frustrating. But it's a whole NEW ballgame.

Remember: what I'm bothered about is the fact we SF audio supporters have to buy a product "which can change names (read: product line name) any time it wants to justify the update". Plus - it was already purchased (read: CDarch, VA2, Vegas 1).

Also, had we Va2 users (people who helped get the updated AUDIO features in VV3) known VV3 would now be the only game in town that FINALLY GIVES THE INTENDED CD ARCH SUPPORT THAT MANY CDARCH OWNERS SHOULD HAVE HAD...then I think we all know what app we would have upgraded to.

But can you honestly with a straight face say that WORKING Cdarch burning justifies A WHOLE NEW PRODUCT LINE? And do you think me an A-hole for speaking up against it?? Come on man...I can read the tone of your message. You sound like a guy who's been around the block (as have I...which is EXACTLY why I am speaking up).

Don't worry. It will all end soon as does anything important in these forums. SF has changed managment - they aren't going to budge for the VA2 owners whether the truth is shouted or not.

This is why SF is playing the defense now in the software biz...and why the competition is quickly gaining more respect and customer base.
It always comes down to offering what the customer needs and customer support...these things don't change. This addage is known thoughout since the beginning of big business time.

I am very happy to speak up against this one though as it relates to my history with SF. Mark it.

JoeD

If you choose to look at it this way myst...that's fine.

Ignore me.

Joed

Nice try.

I'm not "bullying" any of you. It can't be considered "flame" either as this topic deals with problems with product features...not whether or not I like any of YOU PEOPLE. I'm sure I would like any of you had we REALLY met and discussed other issues.

Don't try and cheapen any of this by trying to turn it into another "flame" posting.
That my friend is a CHEAP COP OUT and you know it.
I've seen "flame" posts...they deal with dislike of anyone of you members as being the problem.
No - the problem here is a questioning of what exactly is the business ethic of SF right now. It doesn't look too good so far.

JoeD