Sony TRV-460 Digital 8 camcorder.
Don't forget to factor in extras with your purchase price.
For one, a second battery. A must.
Also, a clear lens filter, a carrying bag, blank tapes, etc.

Mario

In the $600 range I would recommend the Panasonic GS-120 3CCD miniDV camcorder. You will be hard pressed to find better quality camcorder at that price. I have the GS-200 (picked it up for $704) because I wanted more manual control but the GS-120 is basically the same camera without the focus ring. It’s an awesome little 3CCD camcorder for the money.

~jr

I, too, would go for the Panasonic recommendations as outlined above. I am a Sony bigot, having a 5-year-old Sony TRV8 that has been absolutely bulletproof and a 3-year-old VX-2000 that is also a wonderful machine. But, from what I hear, Panasonic has beaten Sony into the 3-chip "value" market.

These cameras won't be much good in low-light situations, but will do well otherwise (based on what I've read).

The new Sony 3 chipper consummer camera (something, something 1000) is better than the Panasonic in the latest reviews AND it shoots native 16:9 which makes it a bit more future proof. Haven't a clue as to the price in the US. Reviews indicate audio is better than average even though it incorporates Sonys wierd attampt at recording 'surround' sound using 12/32K.
As to the other part of the original question, at that price point things are always changeing but not so much in sync with NAB. No doubt by August there'll be some low end HDV cameras on the market.
Bob.

> The new Sony 3 chipper consummer camera (something, something 1000) is better than the Panasonic in the latest reviews AND it shoots native 16:9 which makes it a bit more future proof.

I believe you are referring to the Sony DCR-HC1000, which is around $1300. That’s not quite the consumer $600 price range that we're discussing here and the HC1000 is listed as a prosumer camera. Sony has nothing in the consumer space (under $1000) that is 3CCD. The HC1000 competes with the Panasonic GS400, which also does native 16:9 so it is equally "future proof". I’m not trying to argue, I realize that you said you had no idea of the price in the US but I just wanted to point out that you're talking about a camera that is twice the price of what was requested. You could buy two GS120’s for the price of one HC1000 or GS400.

~jr

The whole "native 16:9" thing still throws me a bit. As near as I can figure some of these Pani models shoot "native 16:9" aand most of the newest Cannons do as well. But they are all called something else - The Pani GS400 and the GS150 both offer a "wide" mode with uses the full CCD width to get a true 16:9 frame. The GS150 also letterbox's the preview in the monitor (As opposed to records image with letterbox). The Canon's all have "Canon's Hi-Resolution 16:9" which seems to be the same thing as "wide" in that it widens the field of video and uses full CCD width to get 16:9. They also letterbox the preview so you aren't looking at a squished image. But the possible bad thing with the Canon's are they are all single chip, I say "possible bad thing" because some of the things I have read about the lower end Pani 3 chipers make it seem like there may not be all that much of a change from a bigger size one chip to 3 lower size CCD's. But on a very plus side many of the Canon's have a manual audio setting and level monitor. I dunno - it is all getting very "pro"-ish on the, what used to be, low end consumer side. The Pani GS400 even has color bars, zebra and a focus ring.

Price wise the ZR100 is under $400.00. The ZR300 is under $500.00 and comes with a wide angle lens/attachment. The 16:9 Eluras vary from $300.00 - $600.00 and the 16:9 Optura's are a bit more around $700 - $900. other than the Xl camera I never seriously looked at Canon's - but I gotta tell you for "native 16:9" and manual audio and a few other things I am so very tempted to look at these just because the price is so low. I still lean toward the Pani line however, I am expecting something after NAB that will help to "guide" me in my next purchase.

If you have never owned a video camera you may be happy with the current line of consumer cams. If you have then you will probably notice as many including "camcorderinfo" have that the quality has fallen in terms of the cameras' light gathering ability and overall resolution. The common Hi8 consumer cam of yesteryear had a 1/3 CCD and a very nice picture. Then the industry decided to cut it back to 1/4 CCD. A lot of us complained that the quality wasn't as good because it wasn't. Canon was the last to have a 1/3 CCD Hi8 camera.
Then they decided to cut it down to 1/5th and 1/6th CCD with terrible results. Now of course, the fact that Digital8 and MiniDV don't have much of a generation loss presented an opportunity for the industry to suggest that the cameras were better. If you made a VHS copy of it for example, you wouldn't get the generation loss as you did going from Hi8 to VHS so they were able to fool the public. But when viewing the original footage of both early Hi8 cameras and newer 1/6th CCD digital cameras the difference in resolution was obvious, particularly in low light.
Low and behold finding a crappy 1/4 CCD camera was like striking gold. So Panasonic decided to try a new gimmick. They would intruduce a 3 chip camera to conjur up images of a professional camera in the minds of the consumers only theirs would have three 1/5th CCDs in it. Example: The PV-GS120. And what do you know, it brought the level of video quality up to the level of a crappy 1/4 CCD Hi8. My son owns one.
Now, what else do you get with today's consumer digital cam. You get a lack of manual controls including focus. For luxuries like that you have to wade through menus to find the option then manipulate a pad or button that serves 15 functions, all menu selectable. But it will take digital stills at 1.5 Megapixels and will come with a secure digital or other memory stick that you don't need.
In case you haven't guessed, the answer to your question is yes (if you have never owned a video camera before) and no (if you have). I would suggest a used Sony DCR-TRV38. It has a 1/4 CCD and shoots Digital 8 very well. Just be careful who you buy it from. Here is a review. The most annoying things about the camera are the touch screen manual controls.
Here is a list of the camcorder ratings and their respective CCD sizes.
John

If you can, I'd wait until NAB, then look to see what B&H has got on special. There will probably be a lot of older model stock that people will want to get rid of.

Make sure your camera has a jack for an external microphone. Many of the consumer cameras omit this crucial feature. You will never get decent sound with any on-camera mike, and viewers are far more tolerant of degraded picture than they are of poor sound.

As for the difference between 1-chip and 3-chip, a lot depends on the lighting. I own two Sony cameras: one a 3-chip PD-150, and the other a 1-chip TRV-18. I've successfully mixed footage from both cameras when shooting in full sunlight or very bright indoor lighting conditions. Once the light is a bit dimmer, the 1-chipper's picture becomes noticeably washed out and grainy.

The DCR-TRV18 has a 1/4 in. 680K pixel CCD.

John

You have had some great advice on camera models. All I will say on cameras is that I have two Sonys, a 10 year old Video 8 model, and a two year old mini-dv model. I dropped both onto hard surfaces accidentally within the first month of ownership. The older one suffered a cracked case but has worked fine ever since, the newer one, dropped from about four feet onto granite, suffered a slight scratch but has been fine.

As to when to buy, buy now and get the benefit of a few months experience with the camera, so you don't make newbie mistakes with it on your honeymoon and you know how to get the best out of it. Spend a happy month browsing and comparing features, then get the thing bought and get practising.

I would also add a mini-tripod and remote control to your list of extras, so you can feature in your own films.

Edit - having read the above excellent information about CCD size, I went to check mine...

http://www.macuser.co.uk/macuser/reviews/42687/sony-dcrtrv60.html

..yay, 1/3 inch CCD on a Mini DV, I always was impressed by the quality I get, now I know why. If you are looking at used models, I could not recommend mine more. The only annoying thing is the touch screen controls, but in reading that review just now, I just realized that with the screen folded back against the side of the camera but facing out, I can still use the viewfinder. I was using it with the screen folded out, which switches off the viewfinder, making it very hard to use in bright sunlight.

See - these are the kind of newbie things you need to figure out before you are on your honeymoon!

Oh, yes, the TRV-18 is purely a "home-movie" kind of camera. (Although it's great for that use.)

If you can find a 3CCD camera in your price range, by all means get it.

http://www.pana3ccduser.com/article.php?filename=A-Comparison-of-Three-Panasonic-3CCD-Camcorders

Here's a review that includes that GS120 that's being recommnded.

When you manage to turn on manual focus, the GS120 sometimes falls out of manual focus and begins to blur, especially in low light. When you turn on camera stabilization it turns itself off when the light drops to what most of us would call "sufficient light". But because that camera only has 1/5 CCDs, it can't handle say a room with a single lamp with a sixty watt light bulb in it so it turns off camera stabilization while you are walking around, unless you are close to and aiming at the lamp itself. The strongest battery available for the camera will only last around two hours unless you don't open the LCD screen so you will have to have several or make your own battery pack (which is what I did for my son's GS120). That forum also has non-videographers on it most of whom have never owned a real camera before. I joined it because my son bought one. It's OK for he, his wife, and the new baby; but that's about it. He also never plans to do NL editing with the footage, just analog transfer to VHS to send to the in-laws in Florida.

John

My wife has a Sony TRV22 (I think that's the number) and it takes great video. I bought it for her about 1.5 years ago and she loves it. I've dumped some of the footage into V5 and the quality was very nice. It's worth taking a look at (if they can still be had......)

Good Luck,

Keith