Canon 5D, 7D, T2i MP4 file issues

MUTTLEY wrote on 3/3/2010, 9:22 AM
Finally trying out the whole DSLR thing and picked up a T2i. When it first got here got a couple clips and dragged em right to the timeline which got me excited but they were just a couple short little ones in my front room, nothing worth editing or rendering. Went out yesterday to do some test shooting and started having issues with the files as soon as I started trying to play with them in Vegas.

This is in a 1080 24p project. Windows Vista 64, Sony Vegas 32 Bit Version 9.0c (Build 896). Intel Dual Core Extreme and 8 gigs of ram.

I have about 45 clips of varying length. Most 1080p, a few 720p. If I select them all in the explorer tab and try to drag them to the timeline Vegas crashes. If I try to drag them in through Windows explorer Vegas crashes. By picking and choosing one at a time I was eventually able to get enough footage on the timeline to try cutting a little something together. Playback was choppy even in draft mode with fx off, very hard to cut to music as it would show the cut in the preview window after the actual cut. Also kept getting a lot of red frames. Would close and re-open Vegas with mixed success in getting rid of them. As suggested elsewhere tinkered with the Dynamic Ram Preview settings and some of the internal memory settings, tried changing the Thumbnails to only show head and tail. None of which seemed to have any effect on either the red frames of playback.

Eventually kind of Frankenstein edited together about 2:30 mins, not saying they're any good but it's something. Now render is proving impossible. Either I get the infamous "System Low on Memory" error even after rebooting with nothing else running or get a full on crash (details below).

So, I'm hoping my newbieness with the Canon files are the culprit and someone knows a magic cure. Anyone out there thats used the 5d or 7d have any of this? Workarounds? Suggestions? Was really excited about my new lil mini cam and this is currently a buzz kill! I'd like to do some more testing and get some footage online but not worth the effort till I sort this all out.

- Ray
Underground Planet

Extra Information
File: C:\Users\Ray\AppData\Local\Sony\Vegas Pro\9.0\dx_video_grovel_x86.log
File: C:\Users\Ray\AppData\Local\Sony\Vegas Pro\9.0\dx_grovel_x86.log
File: T:\Current Projects\Canon T2i\Dog Park\Untitled2.veg

Problem Description
Application Name: Vegas Pro
Application Version: Version 9.0c (Build 896)
Problem: Unmanaged Exception (0xc0000005)
Fault Module: C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Vegas Pro 9.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\mcmp4plug2\mc_enc_avc.001
Fault Address: 0x57D2C033
Fault Offset: 0x0002C033

Fault Process Details
Process Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Sony\Vegas Pro 9.0\vegas90.exe
Process Version: Version 9.0c (Build 896)
Process Description: Vegas Pro
Process Image Date: 2009-10-26 (Mon Oct 26) 15:41:04

Comments

DavidMcKnight wrote on 3/3/2010, 9:33 AM

I'm going to speak a little out of turn here; I haven't used DSLR clips yet, but I have used AVCHD from a Panasonic HMC-150 and they brought our quad-core pc's to their knees. We transcoded using Cineform NEO and it's been a breeze. You might try that. IIRC DSE and probably others recommend transcoding to the MXf format, but for us we got a little higher fps using Cineform. I think Vic Milt also uses Cineform with his 5D footage, he posted about it here a little while back.
TimTyler wrote on 3/3/2010, 9:46 AM
I'm using Cineform Neoscene to transcode my 7D clips and it's great.
Yoyodyne wrote on 3/3/2010, 10:00 AM
Another vote for cineform. As i understand it Cineform also does a gamma correction during conversion.

As for Vegas handling the files - I occasionally get the red timeline events and I did have a crash recently when I tried to drag a bunch of Cineform 7d clips to the timeline. Mostly it's been pretty smooth.
MUTTLEY wrote on 3/3/2010, 10:37 AM
Thanks all.

Will check out Neo Scene, is there an easy way to transcode to mxf?

- Ray
Underground Planet
fherr wrote on 3/3/2010, 10:44 AM
Looking forward to hearing about /seeing your results with the Canon 550D, which I'm sorely tempted to acquire myself in the near future.

Your description of editing problems reminded me of a recent B&H newsletter article - just looked it up - . Like others in this thread, he recommends transcoding.
Ros wrote on 3/3/2010, 11:56 AM
Ray, you might want to try this free script: Proxy Stream [1.5b] for Vegas Pro 9

http://sony.vegas.1.free.fr/

I use it to batch convert Canon's .mov to .mxf

Rob
Laurence wrote on 3/3/2010, 1:25 PM
Yes, .mxf is also a very good option. You can batch convert with a number of different scripts including Proxy Stream, Ultimate-S, and Gearshift.
MUTTLEY wrote on 3/3/2010, 8:12 PM
Okie dokie, using the trial of CineForm Neo Scene I was able to get things working. Here's the vid with test shots from the T2i we shot yesterday if anyone wants to give it a gander.

Dog Park - Canon T2i Test Footage

- Ray
Underground Planet
CClub wrote on 3/3/2010, 8:38 PM
Ray,
You got me fired up. I just purchased the T2i and it came in the mail today. I was wondering about how the files would fare in Vegas and Cineform. I already have NeoScene, so I'm even more juiced. Great footage... can't wait to play around with this toy!
MUTTLEY wrote on 3/4/2010, 9:21 AM

I hear ya CC, it's loads of fun! And really can't wait to go out and do some testing now that I got the Fotodiox Pro Adapter so I can use my little collection of Nikon lenses. I actually wanted to sell my EX1 and get a 5D when it first came out but was quickly shot down by Spot and Victor! =)

So yea, I totally get why now, it's no replacement but a great addition, tons of fun!

- Ray
Underground Planet
erikd wrote on 3/4/2010, 9:14 PM
Very cool! Thanks for sharing. Mind if I ask where you purchased your camera? Also, will it record for more than 12 minutes on a single clip? (the 4gb limit)

Erik
MUTTLEY wrote on 3/4/2010, 9:44 PM

Thanks erik. =)

Bought mine local, B&H, Amazon, and just about everywhere else I usually go online were sold out. Actually glad I did cuz the price was the same and I walked out with it instead of waiting impatiently for a delivery.

As for record times I haven't read a definitive and haven't tested myself yet but plan to. I suspect it is limited to that but I've also read speculation that with the new SDXC memory cards that limit may change. I'll post here after I test.

- Ray
Underground Planet
DGates wrote on 3/4/2010, 10:19 PM
Looks really good, Ray. Did you do a little edge blurring in post?

BTW, that looks like a kick ass dog park. My dog would love that place (but I'm in Cali).
CClub wrote on 3/5/2010, 3:15 AM
Is it true that the 4GB limit is due to a European tax issue... that videocameras add a much higher level of tax than a still photo camera, and so this is Canon's only way around that?
PerroneFord wrote on 3/5/2010, 7:14 AM
*SIGH*

The 4GB limit is because these things are writing to FAT32. FAT32 is the file system chosen because it can be read without additional software on Macs or PCs. It's a plug and go. Has nothing to do with any tax. My Sony EX1 writes 4GB files as well.
MUTTLEY wrote on 3/5/2010, 9:25 AM
DGates, thanks, and yea I'm sure your dog would it's pretty cool. I love the one shot where the one guy throws the ball into the water for his dog and two other random dogs saw em and swam out to try and get it, cracked me up. And yea, some of the blurring was in post with Magic Bullet.

CC, I heard that as well but don't think thats the case. Perrone I'm not sure that the reason you gave is either. From what I've gathered upon further reading, it seems that Canon implemented the 4 gig limit due to the sensors potential for overheating after longer periods of use. The EX1 by comparison has two big slits in its body along its side which are vents for the fan that is in it for this very reason. I can't say for sure this was Canon's thinking but it does make sense. Disappointing though as if this is the case than the limit will still be there even with the forthcoming SDXC memory cards.

- Ray
Underground Planet
PerroneFord wrote on 3/5/2010, 9:44 AM
The canon STOPS recording at 12 minutes because of overheating. This has nothing to do with the file size issue. The GH1 writes files the same size, but records for 30 minutes or more (no mirror to worry about so no overheating issue).

You'll find that any of the cameras that shoot to SD or CF cards and can be read by Mac or PC without assistance have exactly the same 4GB limit.
TimTyler wrote on 3/5/2010, 10:51 AM
> The canon STOPS recording at 12 minutes because of overheating.

It stops at 12 minutes, but not because of overheating.

My 7D flashes the temp warning after about 20-25 minutes of recording.

Som have speculated that the 12:00 minute HD limit is translated from the 29:59 minute SD limit which was put in place due to the extra export duties attached to video cameras that record 30 minutes or more. Don't know if that's true though.
PerroneFord wrote on 3/5/2010, 1:17 PM
Sounds very conspiracy theory to me. Do these extra tariff get slapped onto the $500 consumer HD cameras? And the ones that used to record to internal HDD or DVD? Those certainly recorded more than 12 minutes.
CClub wrote on 3/5/2010, 4:32 PM
It does sound like a crazy rationale. I'm going by what I read over at DVINFO in this http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/canon-eos/5d-mark-ii-vs-7d-for-hd.htmlPost[/link] here: "Due to EU tax regulations the cameras are limited to 30 minutes of shooting in their SD modes, which equates to a 4 gig quicktime h264 file. At HD bitrates this results in a 12 minute shot. Neither camera has been found to have issues with immediately shooting follow-on shots, so the limitation seems solely based on the EU video camera tax limit."

While on another http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eos-rebel-t2i-eos-550d-hd/473969-sdxc-card-canon-t2i.htmlPost[/link], it backs up the other theory: "Canon actually implemented the 4GB/12-minute limit on video recordings in the T2i in order to protect the camera's imaging sensor - and then, the camera must be turned off for a few minutes before continuing to record. Otherwise, if left to record indefinitely, the sensor would have burnt out after about 15 to 20 minutes, rendering the camera inoperable."
PerroneFord wrote on 3/5/2010, 6:33 PM
For the love of God....

Apparently, after a bit of research this is "somewhat true".

According to Phillip Bloom's blog, there is a 4.9% import duty on these types of cameras (camcorders are not subject to it) if they record 30 minutes at a go or more. For most of these DSLRs, that's about 100 euros. Panasonic chose to skirt this by having a countdown in the GH1 that stops it at 29:59.

The falsehood here is that this has anything to do with SD vs HD, or the 4GB file size. 30 minutes of HD is WELL beyond 4GB so this 12 minutes of HD thing is malarky.

As is usual with these matters, there's a little bit of truth in these wild rumors, and it simply gets twisted and misapplied.

Here is the link to Bloom's blog about the matter:

http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/06/03/the-lumix-30-minutes-eu-recording-issue/#more-3637





DGates wrote on 3/5/2010, 6:40 PM
5% is nothing. They should give Europeans the option. Buy as-is, or get one with no limitation for 5% more.
CClub wrote on 3/5/2010, 7:04 PM
Any chance that Canon is using this as an excuse to thread the needle: undercut the market for the Scarlet camera while keeping the prices up for their higher end cameras?
DGates wrote on 3/5/2010, 7:35 PM
Red's woefully slow product roll outs have taken so long, that an entirely new set of tools has found it's way to consumers. And, at an amazing price point.

These DSLR's won't take away business from the Red One system for features, but interest in the Scarlet has certainly been somewhat diminished.