CanopusDVStorm2 - Premiere Plugins

tadpole wrote on 12/11/2002, 10:47 PM
Been looking into getting some real-time effects hardware and the canpus DVstorm2 has sparked my interest.

Wondering how this card will work with VV - thinking not at all?
thinking the only way the two could work, is via adobe premiere plugin?

I recall a posting a while back that mentioned something about someone writing a patch that will allow VV to use is adobe premiere in VV... Is this going to happen?
If so, would these open up real-time effects hardware within Vegas?

oh would that be so sweeet.

Comments

watson wrote on 12/11/2002, 11:13 PM
No way,
Adobe Premiere will never run as a plugin for VV.
If that is what you are suggesting.
VV will not work with realtime effects with Canopus hardware.
I guess it would be possible for VV to access output to NTSC monitor with Canopus hardware. No one has written such a passthrough plugin.
It has not been done to my knowledge to date.

The realtime capabilities have not, and most likely will not be a reality in VV.
That window has long passed.

You can render to a Canopus files and use a canopus files in Vegas if you have the Canopus codec and or hardware in your system.

CPU's are getting faster and VV will be close to real time in the future as CPU's get faster.

I much prefer VV to Premiere.

W
Sr_C wrote on 12/12/2002, 12:48 AM
"The realtime capabilities have not, and most likely will not be a reality in VV."

This question is coming from someone who entered the world of editing with VV3 so please excuse the ignorance. What do you mean when you refer to "realtime capabilities"? Does this mean not having to render once your done editing? Obviously you mean more than previews, right? Sorry, I'm just confused. Again, I really only know Vegas and as far as I'm concerned it is realtime enough for my needs. I must be missing something. -Shon
swarrine wrote on 12/12/2002, 7:46 AM
Canopus produces a card that in conjunction with Premiere allows real time DV output even if you have transitions, color correct, multiple tracks and titles. Matrox has a new card as well. The problem is, you have to use Premiere.
Sr_C wrote on 12/12/2002, 8:26 AM
Got it, thanks. So it cuts the need for pre-renders basically. Thanks again -Shon
watson wrote on 12/12/2002, 10:38 AM
Sorry, this Realtime term gets bandied around a lot and can have many definitions.

Real time in it's true sense is -no rendering-. Even the Canopus card needs to render some things like 3D transitions and stacked up filters and video streams.

No card in this price range does it all with no rendering.
Like you, the fact VV can output to NTSC in realtime or close to realtime, with background rendering so well implemented realtime hardware is hardly a limitation.

In the old days.... in computer years, You had to render to see what your added effects looked like. Those days are just about over.

Lawrence wrote on 12/12/2002, 10:47 AM
I understand that the real-time DV out need dual CPU.
I think they do background rendering so that they can almost output at realtime.
Only selective transitions are on real time mode. Not all effects are real-time.

VV3 can do realtime DV out when you do selectively prerendered.

I recalled that Satish of Debugmode is willing to write a link for Premiere Plugins
to VV3 if there are enough requests for it.


BillyBoy wrote on 12/12/2002, 12:14 PM
About 'real time'... like most computer buzz words the true meaning is something less that when it suggests in the real world.

Consider real time as something happening now, as in immediately (or almost) as opposed to having to do rendering or some other step PRIOR to seeing the result of applying some filter or transition for example.

Expecting ANY video editor software without the help of hardware to display previews at a constant 30 frame per second ability once you start adding filters is simply not possible due to the capability of today's CPU's. So the frame rate during PREVIEW will slow down depending on the complexity of what you're adding filter or transition wise and is also directly effected by the power of your CPU. By dropping down the preview quality from good to preview or even draft quality will speed of the frame rate and only effect the quality of what you see during preview, not the final rendered quality.
Sr_C wrote on 12/12/2002, 6:29 PM
So here's a question out of plain old curiosity. How powerful do you think a CPU would have to be for a program like Vegas to offer actual, true, real deal, no doubt about "realtime". are we talking 10GHz, 15GHz, 20GHz? i suppose such questions are silly but what the hell, I'm supposed to be working right now anyways, why not ponder what has yet to come (or what may never) -Shon
wcoxe1 wrote on 12/12/2002, 7:04 PM
Its really great, now that I have my quad 12GHz machine with dual 2.4 Terrabyte Drives. Things automatically background render so fast that I REALLY have real time output of those 78GB HD files by the time I am finished with a project.

I just love my new 62" OLED 1/16" thick "Color Accurate" PC Monitor with included "Internal-External" monitor in true TV color that coils up into the ceiling when not in use. When I show my finished project on the 129" rolled down ceiling mounted OLED, it REALLY looks great. Not a scan line visible, now that they have perfected 1080 double interpolated progressive.

However, with all the new things in VV 9.5, I am using more and more effects, Internal KeyFramable Noise Reduction and Sound Enhancement, and the frame rate in preview is slowing down a bit.

I dropped the preview quality level to Good, the other day, and things went almost at full speed, until I added a few more of those 7-dimension transitions. It slowed down, again. Still, in Preview mode it is fantastic.

Compared to the Brand-x Thunder Video Processing "real time" Card, at only $4,564.00 (Academic pricing), including Premier 7.89. it is a super bargain, and the INTERFACE, is SO much better that I can't believe anyone would use anything BUT Vegas.

Still, I am designing another new editing computer. Can't wait for the new 15GHz Pentium V chips next year. Quad mounted, with Super-Hyper-Over- and-Under Threading, they should REALLY be great. Yep, I am really looking forward to 2010.

Merry Christmas, and keep dreaming.
Sr_C wrote on 12/12/2002, 8:42 PM
LOL! Thanks, I needed the laugh today (as I said before I'm kinda avoiding working) I

I suppose though, what we have today may have seemed impossible not so long ago.

PLEASE! QUICK! Someone post something interesting as I am bored and starting to ponder our society. HELP!!!
wcoxe1 wrote on 12/13/2002, 9:09 AM
Here is something to ponder. In the last 25 years, I have been right on time with my predictions, year after year. Perhaps not on model numbers or designations or silly names, but on capabilities. The post that made you laugh is actually one of my MOST conservative guesstimates.
tadpole wrote on 12/14/2002, 4:59 AM
wow wcoxe1, nice setup ! how much did that cost you?

;)
Not sure which side of being 'conservative' u are on there .. but i think realtime effects are just around the corner for PCs, if not here all ready? (real-time as in fully rendered multiple transition/effects on the fly)

i've pretty much ignored all hardware to date (due to the expense) but taking my first look now with the dropping tech costs....
check out this link to the DVstorm2 - (view some of the video tutorials)

http://www.canopus.com/US/products/dvstorm_2/pm_dvstorm_2.asp

The the 15uberhertz processor isn't going to be the salvation for realtime effects on pcs, its going to be add-on hardware. CPUs weren't designed to handle video or graphics - just like how graphics cards made PC gaming a reality, so to will the addtion of hardware specifically designed from the ground up to process video bring real-time home to the masses.

of course, as always, the software developers will always lag a bit behind the hardware - so hopefully it will only be a few years before sonic starts adding hardware suppot to vv (if we're lucky he he... ;)

maybe some of these hardware cards are already on the shelf?
Can anyone who owns/used a DVStorm2 confirm or deny?
(those demos on the canopus site are pretty darn convincing - but maybe its just
smoke mirrors?? )

Sab wrote on 12/14/2002, 8:03 AM
No smoke and mirrors at all. But as previously mentioned, you're locked into Premiere or Storm Edit. We still use Storm/Premiere on 2 of our workstations (in addition to Vegas more and more) and the latest Canopus update includes a capture utility that can capture 3 simultaneous streams! If I didn't see it work myself I never would have believed it.

Mike