weirdness...I tired some more plugs and most appear to be pre fader on the channel insert, however the db sidechain compressor was post too!

Not knowing what we will see or expect from Vegas 4, what are the closest contender to Vegas?
Samplitude 7?
Lars

The Channel Inserts are PRE FADER, as I hope they would be, thus the term "insert", like a normal mixing console.

Vegas does however,when you pull the fader down to -inf, it does a MUTE of that channel, which is a good way to do things. If you move the fader up 1 notch to
-59.9 dB, it will UNMUTE the channel once again, and the track insert will be Pre-fader. What you are seeing when you pull the fader all the way down, is the MUTE of the channel happening, thus also muting everything in the insert paths, thus you will see the meters go down in an insert.

"Not knowing what we will see or expect from Vegas 4, what are the closest contender to Vegas? Samplitude 7?"

That depends on what your primary task is. We have used Samp a long time but we would never think of totally replacing Vegas with it...ever. The reason being that of all the apps we have at our disposal, and there are alot of them, Vegas still has absolutely no peers when it comes to absolute raw editing speed and overall interface efficiency. Its lean, fit and stable.

When you have thousands of edits to perform, and maybe very little time in which to perform them, the slightest awkwardness in any command execution, navigation, file handling I\O etc. adds scary amounts of time to your job. I think SoFo have done an exceptional job of providing a very balanced app that puts a high priority on some of the more unsung features professional audio folks need every day, like really good file handling and management, consistent and intuitive command sytax, and a fast, efficient, and clean interface that stays out of your way.

Samp has some very good features, and the new version will no doubt add to that list. But as far as being in contention with Vegas...nah. Too many things would have to change for that to be a reality. At least for us anyway.

Rednroll: exactly, I'm aware that the track inserts are pre-fader. This means that the first stage in the gain structure in Vegas would be the gain pull downs at the top of each individual event.

Personally, I'm finding it irritating at the moment that I can't control the gain stage more easily.

Perhaps a right click on the fader to change it to gain (different colour to avoid confusion) would be a good idea. ? That way we could easily pull down the gain for an individual track.

I'm now often finding I need to turn down the gain on each individual track item, so that compressors on track inserts aren't fed too much level. The same goes for EQ's.

My EQ plugins and compressor plugins (mostly Waves) when I look at their VU meters, they're clipping at default gain level before adjusting parameters. I.E. set flat.

I always record fairly hot, as any good engineer should, but there's definitely no clipping going on in my WAVs.

It doesn't make much since to record at a hot level, then turn it down before you process it through a compressor. Whenever you are turning down the level, you are working with less bits in the calculation. So if you are finding you are having to constantly turn down the audio feeding an input of a processor, then record at a lower levels. -6dB is a good peak level to aim for. What you're really asking for, is like the input stage of a console, like a Line IN Trim knob, which is escentially what the event volume line will give you. You could also accomplish the same thing by just putting in another plugin, which has an imput gain control, which the SF compressor already has. So why can't you just turn down the "input gain" using that compressor? Most plugins have an input gain stage.

Again, you're spot on, and I do that at the moment because that's the only way of doing it in vegas at the moment.

But... there is an easier way, and I'm hoping Sonic Foundry will implement it.

It is fiddly and time consuming to have to adjust the input trims on each individual plugins, as opposed to, right clicking on the faders, selecting gain instead of pre fader, and the faders change colours to avoid confusion! Surely this isn't a big feature to request?

The alternate fader would simply pull down the event gain on all events for each track selected.

having to do it on each individual event becomes a pain in the ass if there are a great deal of events on each track.

That way I could select all eight of my drums tracks, and turn down the gain feeding the compressors in the track inserts... at the same time.

Jason

this is bizzarre still one more clue about this...on the TC key input, as you turn down the channel fader, it doesnt go down linearly. Using a sine wave at -12db, with the fader at zero it shows -12. As you turn the fader to -12 it shows -18. As you turn the fader to -18, it shows near -30

interesting...

I can't say I've noticed this. But I'll have a look when I get a chance.

Anyways, as you probably have rednroll on 'ignore', here's what he said:

The Channel Inserts are PRE FADER, as I hope they would be, thus the term "insert", like a normal mixing console.

Vegas does however,when you pull the fader down to -inf, it does a MUTE of that channel, which is a good way to do things. If you move the fader up 1 notch to
-59.9 dB, it will UNMUTE the channel once again, and the track insert will be Pre-fader. What you are seeing when you pull the fader all the way down, is the MUTE of the channel happening, thus also muting everything in the insert paths, thus you will see the meters go down in an insert.