Cheap lighting (can I use this?)

alltheseworlds wrote on 5/25/2008, 10:14 PM

Usually I process other peoples' video, editing, compressing etc. Lately I've had several offers to do filming. The jobs would be mainly head&shoulders in an office or in set locations outside; and also some "house tours".

Problem is I have no lights.

What I do have is a art lightbox. It's the size of a medium suitcase with four fluorescent tubes and a translucent top. It seems to me that it's a bit like a turbo-charged version of a Lowel Ego.

Do you think it's usable as a light ? If so, what sort of tubes would I buy ? 'Daylight' spectrum ? If it's not suitable, what's the crucial difference between this and an Ego-style setup ?

And if it is OK, I know this isn't going to cover everything I need. So what else should I get ? The Lowel Fluo-Tec are way beyond my budget at present. An acquaintance in TV recommended a Tota 800 and umbrella, but I can't see how that will help me either outdoors or walking through houses.

What could I use for lights when walking through dark, historic homes ? Any ideas for that which won't break the bank ? (I'll probably be using a Sony HC9)

Thanks :-)

Comments

Rory Cooper wrote on 5/25/2008, 10:50 PM

I think you are going to have to think out the box literally

I am also fairly new to shooting video and fairly new to Vegas
One problem that I had with film crews was cabling and weight of equipment you don’t want to lug heavy stuff around
Look iv’e been on heavy weight ad shoots and that can cost big big bucks and manpower
Now that all behind me and what a relief now I film events and interviews and light weight ads quickly no fuss so I bought 2 large 3 million candle
rechargeable torches each with a diffuser
Mounted that on a mic stand and that worked for close shots sometimes I only use one

look its not agency stuff ,for what you want to shoot that will work and its cheap to buy no cables and weight and manpower etc

the proof is not in talk if you want I can email you clips from Celine Dion to Michael Bolton, to Chicago Musical, lion King etc

Serena wrote on 5/26/2008, 12:32 AM

Have a read through http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=575794lighting[/link]

On a walk through you need to light the rooms, not be sweeping around an on-camera light. In interviews you can do a very good job with one soft light and a reflector -- use natural light, for lightest kit.

You would find http://www.vasst.com/search.aspx?category=ProductionVictor Milt's [/link] DVDs excellent instruction on simple and inexpensive ways to excellent results.

alltheseworlds wrote on 5/26/2008, 6:52 AM

Thanks for the link. I'd read a lot of lighting threads here, but missed that one :-)

What about the fluorescent lightbox idea ? Anyone see a problem using that ?

farss wrote on 5/26/2008, 7:26 AM

No problem using your box, it'll work just like any other similar sized light source e.g. the Ego or a small softbox. How usefull such a light source will be for what you're trying to light is a more apt question. Simple suggestion.
Try lighting some things with it, a bottle of something would be good. Grab a torch and try lighting the same things with that. Try moving those light sources closer and far away. If you get the difference you just learned a lot about lighting.
Now repeat that while looking at your scene with your camera.
Bob.

Serena wrote on 5/26/2008, 6:38 PM

To answer one of your queries, daylight tubes would be my preference. However if you have other lights (such as tungsten) then you may find "warm" to be more compatible. Fluorescent lighting (particularly household and commercial) doesn't have a continuous spectrum and usually has narrow spikes in the green and blue regions. These aren't perceived by eye but do show in as a blue-green caste in photos and videos which isn't easily corrected. The KinoFlo tubes are much kinder in this regard. The correct procedure is to use Minusgreen filters on commercial lights (something like Lee #247), and unfortunately tubes vary between manufacturers and the exact correction filter combination varies (but the #247 is probably adequate). Similarly with the compact fluorescents. The thing is to test before hand to see what you can get away with to your satisfaction.
If your art box is robustly constructed (ie heavy) you might look into making something lighter such as Victor Milt's nanolights. Also check out the Chinese KinoFlos on eBay.

EDIT: Trying to keep the above short I've omitted several things, but probably you know them anyway. Incandescents for photo/video work are usually 3200K , but can be much less on a dimmer. Household bulbs are typically 2800K on rated voltage, but low voltage (12v) QIs are higher. This matters when you are mixing light sources, when if they're not all the same CT your shadows (assuming you white balance for your key light) suffer a colour caste that you can correct only with great difficulty (if at all). Hence the need for matching your lighting sources. Oh, and "warm" tubes and CFs are often around 3500K, so matching them to other sources requires CT correction in addition to the #247. The KinoFlos are 3200K (or 5600K for daylight tubes).

alltheseworlds wrote on 5/26/2008, 7:23 PM

Thanks Farss & Serena for your great advice on this (and many other) threads :-)

I am trying to go for all-over daylight fluoro to keep things a little bit simpler & cooler. Trouble is they're pretty expensive compared with the older Tota stuff. Given that the Kino tubes are reasonably cheap, I can't see where the expense is in the fluoro rigs. (Blissful ignorance I'm sure).

More research and thread searching for me.

(And the artbox is heavy!)

Cheno wrote on 5/26/2008, 7:42 PM

www.coollights.biz - very nicely made and fairly inexpensive Kino-type fluoro lights

Also - www.fotodiox.com - look for their continuous lighting, more or less a professional version of the much talked about CFL lights. They've got 900 watt and 1800 watt models.

cheno

Laurence wrote on 5/26/2008, 8:18 PM

If you want to go really cheap for fluorescents, check out http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(h0davy4544mha4552nd3x0jh)/productdetails.aspx?sku=3198439&source=GoogleBasethis[/link] deal on fluorescent work lights from Ace Hardware.

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(h0davy4544mha4552nd3x0jh)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=3200870&Here[/link] is the actual fluorescent tube by itself. You'll notice that it is 6,400K, so you'd need to put in maybe a bit of 1/8 CTO color correction to adjust it to daylight CT.

alltheseworlds wrote on 5/26/2008, 9:56 PM

Some of these cheap fluoros look pretty good.

If I'm trying to match daylight, what is a 'safe K range' ? Is 5000K too low ?

Laurence wrote on 5/26/2008, 10:14 PM

You want somewhere in the mid 5600K range.

Serena wrote on 5/26/2008, 10:41 PM

The difficulty is that commercial (i.e. household) fuoro tubes and CF tend to come in 6500K (daylight) , 5200K (design white), 5000K (daylight), 4300K (cool white), 4100K (deluxe vool white), 3700K (natural white), 3500K (white), 3050K (warm white), 2950K (deluxe warm white), 2700K (incandescent). But I've seen 6500K labeled cool daylight and generally look very carefully before buying. Not all manufacturers label with CT.

If all your lights match, then your camera white-balance is all you need to put it right (remembering CRI -- colour rendition index-- and the aforementioned minusgreen). Generally daylight (natural) is taken to be 5600K, but varies between 2000 (sunrise/sunset) to 9500 (summer skylight). Since I've got the book out: 5400K is average noon, Wash D.C., midsummer is 5800K, and average summer daylight is 6500K.

Coursedesign wrote on 5/27/2008, 12:37 AM

If you're going with non-pro fixtures, make sure to look for "electronic ballasts," the only kind that works for video (and film).

Home Depot has one inexpensive shoplight fixture that works well for about $35-$40, and they also carry Philips daylight tubes with a CRI of about 90 that cost only about $6.

CRI stands for Color Rendering Index. 100 would be perfect, anything 90 or over is great, and 85 is acceptable to most flat-walleted people.

You can search here for a past post of mine from last year with more detail on the above.

MUTTLEY wrote on 5/27/2008, 1:46 AM

I just bought two of these from DeWalt for a shoot and they were friggin amazing. I used em in a variety of ways throught the shoot, sometimes they directly lit the face of the talent, others they were pointed straight up in the trees around the clients pool to give a great backlight. Not sure how long they run with the two 18v batteries (you have to buy them separately) but I can tell ya we ran the hell out of em without dimming. There was no noticeable flicker with my Sony EX1. Love that you can plug em in and run em while the batteries are charging or go wireless. While they aint cheap, they are by comparison for the amount you pay for "real" production lights that run on batteries.

DeWalt Light
Even thinking about picking up two more. =)

I'll post the vid I used em in as soon as its done.

- Ray

Some of my stuff on Vimeo
www.undergroundplanet.com

Rory Cooper wrote on 5/27/2008, 1:53 AM

OK these look great

Rory

alltheseworlds wrote on 5/27/2008, 1:53 AM

They look very versatile. Love battery power.

Since you were using them outside is it not so crucial to think about color temperature and ballast ?

farss wrote on 5/27/2008, 1:54 AM

If shooting interiors one way to wrangle things a bit is to have a few CFLs in your kit and use them to replace any tungsten lights in existing fixtures. You can now get CFLs upto 100W which put out an awesome amount of light and little heat so you can fit them into existing real lights ("practicals"). Mind you they're friggin LARGE and may not physically fit into all light fitting so some 50W and 30W variants would be handy. Some of these do come with the CT printed on them and are pretty close to daylight. Treat the big ones with care and pack in foam, they break easily.

I've now got a bunch of mirror backed CFLs in my kit with matching lampholders and cheap grips and stands. Definately not pro in looks or price but they've been very handy. At 15W they put out quite a bit of useable light

Now here's a tip that I just remembered and I think you can only do this in the USA. The best way to light a room by far is those lights inside helium filled ballons but they cost a fortune. So roll your own. It seems in the USA you can buy cheaply a very long white 'garbage' bag used for transporting Xmas trees. Well there's your balloon. Bottles of helium used for filling party ballons are cheap enough. Now get a pretty bright light source, build a simple cage out of chicken wire to protect the lamp, stuff lamp inside giant sausage white plastic bag, inflate with helium, tie off, turn on lamp and let her float to the ceiling, secure cord to something. I read it'll stay up for an hour at least.

Now if I could find suitable bags down here I'd love to try this myself, a couple of 400W HMI ballons would light a ballroom nicely. If something does go wrong the helium should put the fire out :)

Seriously though if you use cheap lighting kit, buy a RCD, no even if you use expensive lighting kit buy one. If you buy cheap Made In China fittings and aren't that handy with things electrical get someone who is to check them out. The Made In China stuff is getting better but not 100% as good as it should be.

Bob.