Choppy playback of Vegas HD files on PS3

MattAdamson wrote on 7/24/2009, 12:25 PM
Guys

This might be related to http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=656265 slightly however has anyone had experience of choppy play back on HD files through the PS3

Sometimes the file play fine on the pc through products such as windows media player or nero show time however through the PS3 they can display speeded up in places and then choppy in others, it's very odd.

Comments

MattAdamson wrote on 7/27/2009, 9:50 AM
Any thoughts guys?
Laurence wrote on 7/27/2009, 10:18 AM
How are you playing the files: through a card, USB stick, USB hard drive, over a network?
mdopp wrote on 7/27/2009, 10:55 AM
I found this as well.
Try different bitrates. For me it usually works as long as the bitrate is not exceeding 14 mbps.
MattAdamson wrote on 7/31/2009, 10:28 AM
Thanks mdopp

Later I'm going to try lowering the bitrate of the default MPEG 2 blu ray template then to 14 mps. If this is the case though it sounds pretty bad. However I don't understand if standard blu ray commerical films play back fine on the PS3 e.g. Quantum of Solice then why should our Vegas Pro generated videos not?
MilesCrew wrote on 7/31/2009, 1:21 PM
I've never had any problems. I've played my MTS AVCHD files (Canon HF-S100) from a memory card in the PS3, and I've also streamed them from my Netgear ReadyNAS. Both play awesome.
MattAdamson wrote on 7/31/2009, 3:48 PM
Hi milescrew

Sure but are those files rendered through Vegas Pro or just those from the camera itself? The individual M2T files on my Canon HF10 play great on the PS3 directly, it's only when I combine a number of clips, edit and then render through Vegas that the output appears choppy when played back through the PS3
john-beale wrote on 7/31/2009, 7:38 PM
I have had smooth playback of both H.264 and MPEG2 files up to 50 Mbps on my PS3. However this is from the internal hard drive only. I often see choppy playback from USB memory devices and from CD and DVD media, depending on bitrate.
MattAdamson wrote on 8/1/2009, 7:00 AM
Guys,

As mdopp mentioned I've found that I have to lower the bit rate to 14mbit/s and sure enough the video is no longer choppy. This is from the type Sony AVC using the template AVCHD 1920

This seems really bad that Vegas can't render using the full 16 mbit/s rate. I assume this must be an issue with Vegas rendering rather than the PS3 as it can play standard commercial blu ray films fine? If this isn't Vegas's fault does this mean I should buy a dedicated blu ray, might that solve the issue? Although that does seem an expensive way to resolve the issue given the PS3 plays all other movies perfectly.

Appreciate anyones thoughts. I'd really like to render at the full 16 mbit/s as the Canon HF10 video captures at 17 mbit/s so don't really want to lose the quality
blink3times wrote on 8/1/2009, 8:27 AM
Are you talking about avchd disks (avchd on dvd media)?

I have no issues with the PS3 and avchd to the full 16Mbps or mpeg2 to 40Mbps... but this is on Blu Ray through DVDa. What media are you using and what quality level is it?
warriorking wrote on 8/1/2009, 8:36 AM
I have no issues playing AVCHD files straight from my HG10 and 21 connected to my PS3. Also the SDHC card from the HG21 works without issue as well, All my Blu-ray Media including my rendered and burned Blu-ray disc's(Not standard DVD discs) from Vegas and DVDA5 all play perfectly on my PS3...Do you have the latest firmware installed on the PS3....
MattAdamson wrote on 8/1/2009, 8:43 AM
Ok the process I'm following exactly is

1) Copy M2TS files from Canon HF10.
2) Drag M2TS files into Vegas 9 pro project and edit
3) Use Render As to render to a single file in Sony AVC file type, AVCHD 1920 format.
4) Burn this rendered file ( M2TS ) using Nero to a blank DVD RW
5) Play the file in the PS3 by selecting Video -> Data disc -> then selecting the file name


MattAdamson wrote on 8/1/2009, 10:14 AM
It seems the guys on this thread also have similar issues with no resolution as far as I can see

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/24/896475#896502
blink3times wrote on 8/1/2009, 10:38 AM
The problem must be in your final 2 steps because as I said I have no issues at all with m2ts (rendered with sony avc encoder) when going to blu ray. It is either nero that is the problem or bad (cheap) dvd media.

For the record, the only dvd media that I would recommend for avchd disks is tayo, or verbatim
john-beale wrote on 8/1/2009, 11:13 AM
Can you try copying the video file from the DVD-RW to your PS3 hard drive, and play that back? It would clear up the question of media vs. encoding.
MattAdamson wrote on 8/2/2009, 3:02 AM
Hi Jbeale,

That's an excellent point, I had been using the PS3 for years and hadn't even considered copying video to the hard drive :)

When the M2TS file was copied to the hard drive it appears to work better although I still noticed at times the video appeared to speed up.

The media I was using was actually verbatim DVD+RW 1 - 4x certified. The Nero software shouldn't be an issue at all as it's simply creating a DVD data disc with a single file.

Just to throw another spanner in the works, what is odd is if I use the original M2TS files captured from the Canon HF10 unedited and copy them to DVD+RW media they play back fine, although perhaps this is related to the smaller size of each file e.g. 10 - 50MB for each clips as opposed to nearly 800MB for the single M2TS edited rendered file. i.e. perhaps the PS3 buffers large files and doesn't do this well and the drive can't keep up e.t.c.

I then tried yet another approach of creating a DVD architect project . I selected blu ray format, menu based project, dragged the video onto the menu page 1. Then selected Make blu ray disc but then modified project properties for target media size and changed from 25 to 4.7 to fit on a DVD. The other settings left as default i.e. video format MPEG2 , 18 mbps, res 1920, although changed frame rate from default 29.7 to 25. When I start the process, it goes throgh the preparation stage and then get "An error occurred while preparing the compilation" with details as

File name: STREAM/00001.m2ts
Status: TSWrapper.dll::CTSWrapper::ProcThreadMain::Video buffer underflows. -

I'm using v9a

Appreciate if anyone knows anything else I can try. I really don't mind what format / frame rate / options I choose I just want the video rendered without choppy / speeded up frames :)
blink3times wrote on 8/2/2009, 5:22 AM
What audio type are you using? Are you by any chance changing the sampling rate?
MattAdamson wrote on 8/2/2009, 5:29 AM
Audio format is default from template i.e.

Dolby Digital AC-3 Studio
Sample rate 48K
Bit rate 192K
Audio coding mode 2/0 ( L / R )

I can certainly try modifying these values if you think it might help.I'm not advanced enough to be doing things like that by default :)

blink3times wrote on 8/2/2009, 6:03 AM
You're using the default template which uses the "studio" ac3 encoder.... an encoder of which I have had nothing but trouble with. I would try using this template but go into custom settings and uncheck "include audio". Then use the Pro encoder to produce a separate dolby audio file. Import these to dvda and burn.
MattAdamson wrote on 8/2/2009, 2:19 PM
Ok I' unchecked the audio from the custom template. Then created a separate audio file using the Dolby Digital Pro rather than studio format and Render As option, presume that's what you meant by using the Pro encoder?

However although it created two files I still got the same issue in DVDa

File name: STREAM/00001.m2ts
Status: TSWrapper.dll::CTSWrapper::ProcThreadMain::Video buffer underflows. -
blink3times wrote on 8/2/2009, 2:30 PM
Well... I can now promise that you're doing something wrong because the route you've just taken is the one that I use all the time.... with no issues what so ever.... this includes perfect channel separation. I can't however put my finger on what it is you're doing. What are your system specs?
MattAdamson wrote on 8/3/2009, 12:04 PM
I appreciate your efforts to help me blink however you can't promise I'm doing something wrong :) , it's probably just a bug using the specific file format / coding / system spec I have. Vegas DVD a crashes so it's definitely a bug I'd just to find another way of doing the same thing so it doesn't crash.

My system specs are QUAD CORE Q6600, GTX 285 graphics 4GB memory. Vista 64 bit. I'm strongly considering trying Windows 7 RC1 though just on a general note and that may help resolve this issue, perhaps :)

This is just a DVD architect solution though so if anyone has other thoughts on file formats / types I could try to get to play well on the PS3 I'd really like to hear from you.

Also I thought CAVLC / CABAC might make a difference but seems to have the same effect.
MattAdamson wrote on 8/6/2009, 12:03 PM
If no one has any other ideas I'll raise a support issue with Sony
farss wrote on 8/6/2009, 2:25 PM
I suspect your problem is you're using a VBR encode and the minimum bitrate is too low. The defaults Vegas sets in the standard templates have caused me grief over the years with some players literally stopping playing. Increase the minimum bitrate to no less than say one third of the average bitrate.

Bob.
john-beale wrote on 8/12/2009, 10:32 PM
Just last week I got a Sony HDR-XR500V (AVCHD) camera. The image quality is very nice. I edited about an hour of video down into two clips, one was about 2 minutes (2:08) and one was 3:35 long. I did the editing in V8c since I trust that more than V9, but I then opened the project in V9a and encoded both segments with the Sony AVC: AVCHD 1920x1080-60i stock preset with 16 Mbps video and 192 Kbps audio (Stereo AC3). I then transferred the two m2ts files to the hard drive on my Sony PS3.

The shorter 2:08 clip plays through fine. The longer clip plays ok most of the way, until it reaches 2:51 and then (with the PS3 "display" mode on) the onscreen elapsed time freezes and the video continues but playback is stuttery, it looks like about 15 fps instead of 29.97 fps.

I've had the PS3 for about a year and played many of my own MPEG2 files and a few AVC files with bitrates up to 50 Mbps and never seen this behavior before on material played from the internal HDD, so I suspect it is an encoding problem in V9a.

By the way, again in the "display" mode of the PS3 I notice the displayed bitrate sometimes drops as low as 3 Mbps although it is a nominal 16 Mbps encode setting. The 2:51 point at which playback becomes stuttery is actually a high-motion segment and is somewhere around 15 Mbps. One other thing, pausing or FF anywhere in the AVC clip causes stutter or freeze-frames.