CineForm NEO Player + Vegas -- Beta

David Newman wrote on 5/30/2007, 10:47 AM

CineForm has a new beta version of NEO Player that should help Vegas users -- and we're looking for feedback.

Here is the download : NEO-Player-3.0.1-Beta.zip

New to this beta -
* NEO Player detects a Vegas install and uses an updated VfW codec that enables Vegas to continue creating CineForm content, while supporting all the latest CineForm images types from RAW to 4:4:4. If Vegas is not present a playback only codec is installed.

* The installer now detects whether your PC has SSE2 instructions, preventing problems with installing the latest software on PCs that are too old to support the new functions.

* If you install NEO HDV/HD/2K as a trail, you get the full codec version for 15-days. If you choose not to purchase, the codec can no longer reverts to the Sony license, this was due to a change in Vegas. Now uninstall NEO HDV... and install NEO Player to get your standard CineForm features back in Vegas (plus some bonuses.)

If you use CineForm, but you aren't using Connect HD or NEO HDx, there are still plenty of reasons to install NEO Player.
* Your get the latest decoder for a wide range of support.
* Your get higher quality on your encodes, while you don't get the quality controls of a licensed version, it is still a nice improvement.
* You get Quicktime/MOV CineForm decoding support in a wide range of applications.
* You get a DirectShow decoder of faster and smoother desktop playback.

If you are using Connect HD, strongly recommend upgrading to NEO HDV (or better) if your PC can support it. It will give a lot of new features and all of NEO Player.

If you are already using NEO HDV+, you have the latest CineForm components, and you should not install NEO Player -- if you do just reinstall your NEO HDV+ product.

David Newman
CTO, CineForm

Comments

David Newman wrote on 5/30/2007, 3:24 PM

Any feedback? We will go live shortly, I was just hope for some outsiders to try this as is impacts users Vegas only.

jrazz wrote on 5/30/2007, 3:46 PM

dan,

I installed the program installer, but don't know how to use it or test it. I was looking for some sort of player with a UI, should I be looking for something else?

j razz

aussiemick wrote on 5/30/2007, 5:19 PM

Nothing here neither.
Mick

jaegersing wrote on 5/30/2007, 10:44 PM

Hi David. I just tried it, but got a message saying that the trial version of the Cineform quicktime codec had expired.

Richard Hunter

David Newman wrote on 5/31/2007, 7:34 AM

This is not a player in the Window MediaPlayer sence, it is a range of decoders allowing CineForm files to be widely shared.

Richard,

You got that QuickTime message how? NEO Player doesn't include an encoding license so you will get message if you try and encode a new CineForm QT clip. If you weren't encoding, we will need to fix that.

David

prairiedogpics wrote on 5/31/2007, 11:06 AM

QuoteIf you install NEO HDV/HD/2K as a trail, you get the full codec version for 15-days. If you choose not to purchase, the codec can no longer reverts to the Sony license, this was due to a change in Vegas. Now uninstall NEO HDV... and install NEO Player to get your standard CineForm features back in Vegas (plus some bonuses.)

So, if, as a Vegas User, we decide not to purchase, we get some bonuses? What would those be?

David Newman wrote on 5/31/2007, 11:35 AM

Bonus were listed in the first post.

> * Your get the latest decoder for a wide range of support.
> * Your get higher quality on your encodes, while you don't get the quality controls of a licensed version, it is still a nice improvement.
> * You get Quicktime/MOV CineForm decoding support in a wide range of applications.
> * You get a DirectShow decoder of faster and smoother desktop playback.

David Newman
CTO, CineForm

quoka wrote on 5/31/2007, 11:03 PM

Just installed, noticed a render using the new codec gives slightly better image results than the original default codec.
When I loaded the just rendered cineform avi back into Vegas I do get slightly jerky playback with Vegas set at Preview quality. I don't have HDconnect.

I still get jerky playback inside a quicktime player. I doubt its my system, I can playback uncompressed HD no problem.( 2x Dual Core CPUs, x64, Ultra320 with 4x scsi HD's)
I can't see any picture(but can hear sound) if I open the file with Mediaplayer.

prairiedogpics wrote on 6/1/2007, 7:21 AM

I'm finding similar performance as quoka.
Any HDV (.m2t) clip plays in Vegas 7.0e at 29.97.
If I render that out to the Cineform intermediate and bring the intermediate (.avi) in to Vegas, I get 12-15 fps. (Project settings are for HDV 1080-60i 29.97, "Preview - Auto"; but the same thing happens for "Preview - quarter").
However, if I play that same intermediate in Media Player Classic with the external filter set to Cineform HD codec I get a full 29.97 fps.

Why is the intermediate so slow in Vegas?

BTW, I did run the script for Faster playback on the Desktop.

john-beale wrote on 6/1/2007, 9:50 AM

too much to hope for probably, but can using Cineform somehow fix the "two black frames" bug in Vegas many report when editing HDV? (I assume that's probably something only Sony can fix)

David Newman wrote on 6/1/2007, 11:36 AM

I'm not finding the same performance results. While Vegas does use GPU acceleration for a lot of 1080i HDV, this will not work for 24F from Canon, or any 720p HDV, so not all HDV is accelerated. For unaccelerated HDV the CineForm files will be 2 to 2.5 times faster/smoother playback -- I just tested this on a generic 3GHz P4. For Sony accelerated HDV clips like the V1U, I find the M2T and AVI clip play at the same speed. If you your experiencing this there maybe options you are using that I'm not aware of.

So it seems the new NEO Player build is working fine. For those using the Sony version CineForm for HDV in general for quality / multigeneration reasons, you get a boost in quality and desktop playback performance -- pretty nice for free. This test was to make sure we didn't break anything. For those doing professional work, please look into the commerical NEO products.

David Newman
CTO, CineForm

prairiedogpics wrote on 6/1/2007, 12:20 PM

Hmm, well I'm using clips straight out of a HDR-HC7, so no 24p or anything like that.
If any other users would know why the intermediates are choking in Vegas, I'd love to know why.

One other thing, David: I installed the NEO HDV/2K, rendered a few intermediates for testing (and can see they are using 3.1.0 codec). BTW, these are the intermediates that choke in Vegas. I then uninstalled NEO HDV/2K and installed just the NEO Player. The codec now says 3.0.4 for intermediate clips (that's expected I guess...).
But when I tried to render another intermediate after this installing/uninstalling/reinstalling, I get an error telling me there is no Cineform video codec installed, and then a message that I need to contact Cineform for licensing.
I then upgraded to Vegas 7.0e (from 7.0d) and that didn't fix it.
I then re-installed NEO HDV/2K and I have my rendering capability back.
Do I have to wait the 15 days until I can revert back to the Sony Cineform rendering without errors (i.e. wait until the trial period expires before I uninstall NEO HDV/2K again and re-install NEO Player?)?

David Newman wrote on 6/1/2007, 1:43 PM

New play should not be v3.0.4 unless you are installing an old one (use the beta verion linked above.) Uninstall, then delete the CFHD.dll file if it exists in windows/system32 -- with all you version changes it might be sticking around -- then install NEO player beta (released later today so no longer beta.)

Note: If you export from NEO 2K in 444 mode those will choke some systems, 444 is new and only really for higher end projects.

prairiedogpics wrote on 6/1/2007, 7:33 PM

David,
I tried to install the non-beta NEO Player version that was released today, but the install hangs at a point that says, "Could not locate Adobe Premiere Registry key."
I'm a Vegas user and don't have Adobe Premiere on my system.

Update on the playback problem: I'm a fool; in my rush to test NEO Player I put the test avi files on the Desktop (OS drive). Moved them to my dedicated media drive and playback is fine now. Oops, sorry.

Dan

Serena wrote on 6/2/2007, 4:26 AM

David,

I tried to install NEOHDVv301b130-070601 and installation failed because couldn't find Adobe registration. So reinstalled NEOHDVv301b129-070518. What does this error mean?

David Newman wrote on 6/2/2007, 9:14 AM

It means we messed up. NEO player does support Premiere decoding, but that shouldn't be required, I will patch that this weekend.

David Newman
CTO, CineForm

Bill Ravens wrote on 6/2/2007, 9:55 AM

I received an installation error stating that PPro was not found, which makes sense since I don't have PPro installed. Nevertheless, NHDV 3.0.1 b130 installed to my hard drive. Execution of NHDV by trying to convert an m2t file to CF Intermediate results in the following error message:
Error: cfEncoder.CoCreateInstance(CF_ENCODER_GUI)(0x80040154 - Class not registered) in (ConvertGraph.cpp at 1649)

David Newman wrote on 6/2/2007, 10:46 AM

Bill,

The install didn't complete due to the missing Premiere registry, I have just re-uploaded all the NEO builds (HDV/HD/2K) with the small installer fix. Just download it again from the same link.

Serena,

NEO-Player release build 130 has also had its installer fixed.

Sorry for the annoyance, but thanks for the fast feedback.

David Newman
CTO, CineForm

Bill Ravens wrote on 6/2/2007, 10:48 AM

thanx, david

prairiedogpics wrote on 6/2/2007, 2:09 PM

The NEO Player 130 release still stalls at same message:

"Could not locate Adobe Premiere Registry key."

The "Tools" program group is never installed and you can't uninstall it after this either. I had to re-install the beta version in order to uninstall anything.

I even re-submitted for a new download link for the NEO Player, so it's the latest version that is still throwing this error. (I'm assuming we're not supposed to use the link in the original post above.)

David Newman wrote on 6/2/2007, 3:37 PM

The download is still pointing to the old verison -- I just deleted that, and I'm try the upload again. Try again in 30 minutes.

David Newman wrote on 6/2/2007, 3:42 PM

I worked it out the download link has slightly different name than I uploaded this morning. Now fixed, and tested :) Download it now.

prairiedogpics wrote on 6/2/2007, 5:31 PM

Working now. Thanks, David!!!

jaegersing wrote on 6/3/2007, 4:01 AM

Hi David. Yes I was trying to render. Not sure what Neo's connection is with Vegas if it's not for rendering. maybe I need to read up on this.

Richard