Codec question

Caruso wrote on 4/10/2001, 5:06 AM
Is there a way to select the codec that I want VV2.0d to
use when rendering to NTSC DV? I seem to keep going around
in circles on my system - 900Ghz/win2000 - VV2.0d -
VC2.0b.

I have been using VV in combination with Pinnacle's Studio
DV, and have had some nice successes using VV to do the
editing and then importing avi sections into StudioDV for
output to tape (I'm still running FAT32 partitions).

To keep Pinnacle's infectious codecs from taking over my VV
setup, I have been using a dual boot keeping VV on the
WinME side, capturing there using VegasCapture and the
native Veges DV codec. Resultant avi's report DV as the
compression codec (desirable for VV). I then edit these in
VV, render, then reboot to Win2000, assemble my avi's on
StudioDV's timeline and output to tape.

(sorry to be so lengthy here)

This weekend, I had some analog 8mm tapes (about 8-hours
worth) and did not want to take the time to transfer them
all to DV, so I tried capturing via my camcorder's
conversion thru firewire feature. I found that
VegasCapture would drop frames and leave artifacts in the
resulting AVI's. For some reason, StudioDV did not
encounter this problem, so, contrary to my better
instincts, I installed VegasVideo in Win2000 alongside my
installation of StudioDV, used Studio to capture, imported
those avi's into Vegas, and so forth.

The first time I did this, I had absolutely no problems
whatsoever. On subsequent sessions, however, the StudioDV-
captured avi's play in an extremely jerky manner within
Vegas, although, if I go ahead and complete my editing and
render using the NTSC template, I can then import those
avi's back into Studio for final assembly and output to
tape, and everything works fine. These avi's will not run
smoothly in Vegas, however.

I see that, on my first session, Vegas rendered my .veg
files using a MiroDV300 codec (from Pinnacle), but, on
subsequent tries, it used another Pinnacle codec, Miro2DV.
I would like to tell Vegas to render using the Vegas
codec . . . DV.

Is that possible, or am I totally off base?

And, if you can bear with me, one more question:

I have been toying with the notion of going to NTFS for
video capture (and, hopefully, eliminate the need for
StudioDV altogether), but have not done so, as I was under
the impression that the physical disk upon which Win2000
resides along with the capture drive have to be NTSF, and I
am running a lot of other software that won't run under
win2000.

I read somewhere that it is possible, after installation
using FAT32, to convert only my video storage drive to NTSF
(I'm using an external firewire drive). Is this true?

Sorry to be so lengthy, and, thanks in advance for any
replies.

Caruso

Comments

jboy wrote on 4/10/2001, 1:21 PM
I'm away from my video computer right now, so I hope I'm
giving you accurate instructions, but yes, you can pick
your codecs. I'm running the MainConcept codec w/the same
VV/SDV combo you are. If you go to the video preferences
box, (and this is the point where I hope my recollections
are accurate), you choose the NTSCDV template, and then
click on either the "advanced" or "custon" button, which'll
take you to a second screen displaying the NTSCDV template
choice again, and another box called "format". Clk on this
and your choice of codecs should lie within. I dont know
why your files played jerkily in VV, sounds like they were
rendered "uncompressed", but then they wouldn't have played
smoothly in SDV either. Dont know the answer to your
Fat32/NTSF conversion question, but I hope someone else
does..
Caruso wrote on 4/11/2001, 5:21 AM
JBOY:
Thanks for the reply. Seems accurate to me. However, when
I tried to change the compression type (codec) from that
screen, then clicked ok, then clicked on whatever button it
is to start the render process, I recieved an error message
stating that the combination was not supported.

Also, I would love to know what SF calls their codec so
that I could identify it in the list (I see an Indeo 5, a
cinemak something or other, and several others in the list,
along with a host of obvious Pinnacle specific codecs, but,
for the life of me, can't positively identify the codec
that is native to VV). Maybe someone out there can help.

Thanks again.

Oh, and the jerkiness I attribute most certainly to the
fact that my source video is being captured in a codec
(mirodv2) that is not quite as friendly to VV as it would
like. That's my only explanation . . . anyone else care to
venture an opinion? If I go back to WinME and capture DV
footage through the native DV VegasCapture program, I can
switch to Win2000 and the avi's play fine in the VV program.

Caruso
db wrote on 4/11/2001, 10:25 PM
you "C" drive (operating system drive or partition) can be
either fat 32 or NTSF under win2K... if you want to cature
and render longer then 4 gig files then go NTSF on your D,
E etc capture drives/partitions .......

jboy wrote on 4/11/2001, 10:59 PM
DB; thanks for a complete answer. Do you really have 320 gb
of storage on your desktop ? I'm impressed and am suffering
from a bad case of gigaenvy..
Caruso wrote on 4/12/2001, 5:31 AM
Thanks for the replies.

Here's my question:

When I capture on a setup not containing anything from
Pinnacle (I reserve my WinMe setup in this pristine
manner), my capture files result in avi's, and, I believe
that, when I right click them, the compression type shows
DV (but, I'll have to check this out, I'm working from
memory here). For certain, those avi's play smoothly on
the Vegas timeline, and, when rendered, most definitely
result in compression type "DV" files.

As soon as I introduce Pinnacle's product (by installing it
on the system, doesn't matter whether it's WinME or
Win2000), I permanently lose the ability to render using
whatever codec it is that give me a DV compression type
under file properties.

It's always some version of a Pinnacle codec (Miro2DV,
MiroDV300 or some other iteration).

Usually, I can work with these files in either program for
a couple of sessions, after which, subsequent sessions
result in VV becoming increasingly cranky.

Right now, running Win2000, StudioDV and VegasVideo on the
same system, rendered files will always show one of the
Pinnacle codecs, and Vegas plays these files in a very
jerky manner.

Of course, I can always boot up my pristine WinME, capture
using VC2.0b, stay in WinME, load VV, do my editing, render
to avi, shut down, reboot to Win2000, import the avi's to
StudioDV, assemble on the timeline and output to tape.

And, I don't really mind these extra steps, and have been
successful in creating long productions to tape in this
manner.

However, I have a large collection of analog 8mm tapes to
edit. In order to follow the extrat steps outlined above,
I have to first copy them all onto Digi8 tape, as I find
that VegasCapture does a poor job of capturing analog
through the firewire. For some reason, it drops a lot of
frames, and the resultant avi's contain "artifacts."

StudioDV captures these converted analog tapes through the
firewire happily, dropping only 1 frame at the very start
of the session, never dropping another.

That's why I have rekindled my questions regarding being
able to actively select (restrict) the "DV" codec after
editing with VV.

Again, sorry to be so lengthy.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Caruso
jboy wrote on 4/12/2001, 4:41 PM
Why dont you just try a different codec ? I'm running the
same studio/vv combo you are and have never had trouble
swapping files back and forth. I'm using the MainConcept
codec, but if you dont want to spend $50, go to Pinnacles
website and punch-in Huffy or Huffy codec in their search
engine. I vaguely recall there was some discussion some
months ago about which codecs to use and the Huffy one was
spoken highly of, and it's free. There were also a number
of other free codecs mentioned in the context of this
thread. Also,I must say that in cruising around various
application forums one of the things that really jumps out
about Studio is how good its capture and output
capabilities are. Seems like many, many apps have problems
with their capture and output modules, (this would include
VV, MainActor, Premiere, MSP 6.0), so I'd advise you
sticking with Studio to import/export files. I'm sure not
everyone has a problem with their apps matching capture
utility, but apparently many do. Also, in cruising around
the Pinnacle site last night, somebody said that it was
possible to convert fat32 files to ntsf from within
win2000, but that you couldn't change them back again. I
found this thread in Search for windows 2000, I believe.
Try a different codec, I'll bet it solves your problem..
Caruso wrote on 4/12/2001, 9:25 PM
JBoy:
I have the huffy codec. Or I should say I had it. It did
not work well with VV on my system. Files rendered with it
could be opened in StudioDV, but did not play or output to
DV well (jerky).

I may stick with things as they are for a bit. My Vegas
playback for editing on the timeline is jerky, but not so
jerky that I can't tell what's going on, and, if I render
with one of the Pinnacle codecs mentioned in my earlier
post, SDV will open and play the files ok.

I also read the thread that state you can switch to NTFS
(switch the file system of one or all of your
partitions . . . I did not understand the thread to
indicate that you could convert Fat32 files to NTFS,
though). What isn't clear to me is whether I may switch a
storage device or partition only, or if my Win2000
partition also has to switch. Will look into that more
this weekend.

Thanks again for you input.

Caruso
Caruso wrote on 4/13/2001, 4:53 AM
DB:
I took the plunge last evening, did a search on the Win2000
help index, deciphered the cryptic command instructions
supplied by Billy and team (why they can't just give you an
example instead of some obscure, illogical word
substitution for what you actually need to do is beyond
me), and took the plunge into NTSF.

The move forced me to sacrifice all the video and editing
stored on one of my two external drives, but, I was in the
middle of editing one group of about six-hours of video,
and that wasn't going well, and I have an archive DV output
tape of the other 30-minute production, and, while it isn't
perfect, it's almost so (perfect in the sense that there
are no glitches caused by the computer system), and, none
of the stuff is irreplaceable, it just means more time if I
decide to recreate.

The good news is that the conversion to NTSF via command
line commands went smoothly, and I started a capture of one
of my analog two hour tapes last evening, went upstairs and
fell asleep on Nighline, and, having found that tape
completely captured in one sweep, am happily capturing
another two-hour segment.

DB, you are the first to have clarified (to me) that NTSF
can co-exist with a Win2000 installation where the Win2000
partition, itself, is not NTSF. Had I realized this
earlier, I would have converted even prior to having
captured footage.

Thanks for setting me straight.

By the way, since my current project consists of analog
footage, and, since Pinnacle's capture of camcorder-
converted footage is more successful in my experience than
using VegasCapture (no dropped frames), I captured that
first 10-gig bit of footage via StudioDV. If I check the
properties of the resultant avi file, I find "Miro2DV"
listed as the compression type, so, obviously, some non-
camera, non-Windows codec is playing some part in the
capture process, even before editing/processing in
VegasVideo.

My guess is that, if I captured using VegasCapture, the
Pinnacle codec would show up again (as I believe it has in
the past), which is why, when I want to avoid Pinnacle
codecs, I caputure from my WinME OS where no Pinnacle
products are installed.

I plan, on my next project, which will involve only Digi8DV
footage, to capture on the WinME side (albeit in 4-gig
segments), then switch to Win2000 and edit in VegasVideo,
then render the entire project as one giant NTSF avi. I'm
guessing my results should be as good as it's going to get
using this combination of video software and MS OS's.

Will let you know.

Thanks again to all who have offered suggestion.

Caruso
jboy wrote on 4/13/2001, 12:28 PM
Something I forgot to ask you in my earlier posts, what
version of Studio are you using, v. 1.05 or 1.10 ? I ask
because you can delete both of the pinnacle codecs, (I
recall one is called Studio and one Pinnacle something or
other), in v.1.05 with no ill effects.I dont think v. 1.10
uses them. Also, if you didn't delete them, the Mainconcept
codec I installed wouldn't show on my list of codecs until
I deleted the 2 pinnacle items.It still sounds to me like
you're having a codec problem. Try downloading the
mainconcept demo and see if it works. Thanks for the info
on ntsf. Didn't know you could have a fat32 partition on
win2k and an ntsf one on auxiliary drives either.
Caruso wrote on 4/14/2001, 11:55 PM
JBoy:
I run version 1.10 (I think that is the latest). I just
uninstalled it, however. The conversion of my external
firewire to NTSF went smoothly, and I used Studio yesterday
morning and last evening to convert/copy about 6 hours of
analog video through my Digi8 Cam.

I was happier than a . . .(well, I was happy) and set about
editing the entire 6-hrs today, until I discovered that one
of the 2-hr avi's suffered from inherent lack of sound
sync. I had not experienced that problem in Win2000, or
even in WinME for quite a file (I am sufficiently
conversant with the Pinnacle Website thread dealing with
DX8 and QDV files).

So, as a test, I loaded VidCap20b and captured a section of
the affected footage. It, too, was out of sync.

Enough is enough, says I, so, I uninstalled Studio, and,
voila, no more sound sync problems (I think). The existing
avi files were not improved, but subsequent vidcap files
were good, and showing DV as the compression codec (this is
directly afte capture and before any alteration or re-
rendering in VV2.0d). While I had Studio installed, all
captures would result in avi's showing Miro2DV as the
compression method.

Anyhow, I decided to trash the entire 6-hrs of Studio-
captured video, and set out to re-capture using Vidcap2.0b.

The first two-hour tape I captured resulted in a file where
only the first 6-10 seconds of sound would appear on the
timeline, and, only the first 6-10 seconds would play from
the timeline or the WinMedia player.

I could, however, preview both video and sound from
Vidcap2.b to my camcorder - go figure (and, trust me, I did
make certain that I was previewing the file and not
additional tape footage).

So, I know the sound is somewhere on the hard drive, but
some glitch is cutting it off.

Seemed as though the problem would come and go, also. I
would make a series of short clips, all would suffer from
no sound, then, all of a sudden, I'd record one that would
work properly, and then, all the rest would play properly
as well.

Decide to assume that the problem had departed, and, it
would come back all over again.

So . . . I uninstalled both VV2.0d and VC2.0b, then,
reinstalled them both, loading VC first (not sure if it
matters).

At this point, I am re-capturing my footage, having
satisfied myself that things will work properly.

I'm giving the Pinnacle product a rest for now, hope to get
a full-length video produced and out to tape using only
Vegas.

Please keep your fingers crossed.

Thanks.

Caruso

jboy wrote on 4/15/2001, 5:48 PM
our prayers are with you...