DV magazine, Feb 2004, has an article about Walter Murch and editing Cold Mountain on FCP. It is about 6 pages and is a very good article. He talks about why he chose FCP over other apps.

Dave T2

I think Vegas can proudly claim that no Anthony Minghella movies have been edited with it. In fact I think they are going to put that on the box.

Chances are you won't see a major motion picture on the big screen that was edited with Vegas - one of the main reasons is that Vegas does not support matchback, and it has limited EDL support so you could not even dump out an EDL and offer it to someone to aid in doing matchback. Perhaps this will change in the next version.

However - to be equally vauge - I know music for some major films was done with Vegas. (Perhaps Spot can detail some info on that?) I also know some major DVD's that were done with Vegas. (At least I would consider "Yes" a major act) I further I know that feature films have been edited with Vegas. ..how major or minor is open to opinon.

Perhaps Sony could spearhead a movement toward a standard for EDLs and come up with an XML document standard that could be utilized across the board by software/hardware folks in the film industry.

Premiere has always had pretty good EDL support, but a universal format would advance the whole industry, in my opinion.

Hear, hear. We need EDL and matchback support. The indie filmmakers like me need to be able to hand their work off to a film-transfer house once a distributor at a festival says, "how soon can you get me a print?"

Its real dumb question time. What is matchback?


JJK

JJK,

It is making sure that you making the same cut in the same place in the video and eventually on the film. One aspect of it is making sure cuts done at 29.97 fps video match up to film at 24 fps

I said it before, but this is what really scares me about Sony's take over and Vegas 5. We need matchback and EDL support for indie filmmakers. Right now this is a huge advantage that FCP has and until Vegas gets these things I don't think it will be taken seriously by the mainstream.
Come on, Sony, give us no reason ever to leave Vegas. Add these features and lets give FCP a run for its money!

I think that EDL support is imperative, to take Vegas to the next level.

Sure, if you use Vegas for DV work only, then there's no real problem. But, if you use Vegas to do offline editing, and want to transfer those edits to other media, then it becomes a problem.

While not exactly trivial, I don't think that it would be a difficult job to implement EDLs in Vegas, since the "program" will "know" each and every editing decision being made. It would be a matter of documenting each decision, and then outputting that EDL.

There are a number of common EDL formats out there. I must say again, some sort of "universal" standard based on XML could potentially revolutionize the industry.

Unfortunately, I rarely have good ideas, and even more unfortunate is the fact that I rarely get paid for having good ideas.

Oh well, live and learn.

It sounds like a good idea EXCEPT there is for example no industry standard to even how an FX should look. So you use a Page Curl FX in your project, dump out an EDL and load that into a high end Avid system, all I can say is good luck! Even if the Avid knew what a page curl was what chance have you got of it looking the same?

From what I deduce from that latest and previous press releases from Sony is this. With Vegas you'll be able to ingest HDCAM from a J-H3 VCR, hopefully that includes the 'film mode' version (read 24p) from CineAlta and edit in Vegas. Once you're done take it up into XPRI to edit in uncompressed HD and PTT or even output to 35mm.

There's nothing else on the planet that I know of that can do this, if you feel the need to jump from Vegas be prepared for that horrible sinking feeling. The approach Sony seem to be taking bypasses a lot of the current technology but that's how technology makes quantum leaps.

But before you get too excited, stop for a minute and consider what any of this sort of kit costs. You'll immediately see that the decision as to which NLE you use is just plain irrelevant, just one prime HD lens costs as much as a complete DV editing system and camera. That's just a lens, heaven forbid if you want a camera to go with it.

A decent sized HD studio monitor, maybe $10K, to output to 35mm, at least $1 per frame, and that gives you a neg and one print.

Having said all that, there's a movie been shown for two years in a cinema in Melbourne off one DVD via a video projector. You can easily do the whole job in Vegas, guess whatever's on the DVD has a good story. I find all this discussion so far from the path to success in this business, not wanting to put a downer on anyone but if you've got the story of the century then what you shoot, edit and project it on matters naught. Probably the seminal images of this century were shot on handheld Hi8!

Farss said, "I find all this discussion so far from the path to success in this business, not wanting to put a downer on anyone but if you've got the story of the century then what you shoot, edit and project it on matters naught."

Although I understand the interest in technology and the thrill of having the biggest and best tools (especially if the big boys use them, too), I fully understand and agree with Farss.

When it's all said and done, at least in my mind, the age old adage is still true, "The story's the thing." How many times has Hollywood proven that, even with the best tools, if the story doesn't work, the movie doesn't work either. It's that simple.

J--

These last two posts are very sensibly said. Even AVID can't read their own stuff from one app to another completely.
If you want to do film-destined editing, currently AVID is the only tool that WORKS. And that's a 100K investment. And if that's where we're talking, you guys are in the wrong forum, using the wrong app, and the rest is just pipe dreams.
There are a LOT of things I wish Vegas had. But that won't stop me from editing with it. For instance, I wonder how many here have actually used the surround tools? Used the scopes for real value? or even use External Preview? When I was working with SOFO on external monitor, the two things I kept SCREAMING needed to happen were:
1. External monitor to be sellable
2. Codec that had value, and was as good if not better than what Canopus was offering.

Oddly enough, most of the people I've talked to over the years don't care about either one. I'd be stunned if 10% of the folks using Vegas actually use the majority of the professional tools found in there?
BTW, Frank Zappa's documentary was edited in Vegas. lots of PBS docco's are done in Vegas. My own "Toubat: Journey of the Native American Flute" was done in the Beta version of Vegas 3, it has taken many awards at this point. Parts of a film called "Lost Landscapes" was done in Vegas, because it beats Stage Tools for pan/crop stuff.
I don't know of any big screen stuff...for video. But, if you've seen Last Samurai, Hidalgo, Finding Nemo, Open Range, and MANY, MANY ESPN sports shows, that music is all done in various versions of Vegas. Every piece of brass I've received has been in either Vegas or Sound Forge....at some point in time or another.
James Cameron took a streaming class I taught that was entirely Vegas based, Steven Seagal's trailers for "The Foreigner" were cut in Vegas. Also, his music video was cut in Vegas too. Many saw that project as I was doing it, because I showed parts of it on the VASST tour for Vegas last year.

SPOT,
actually I've been surprised at the number of people I've come across who do serious work in Vegas, some of them are still using Version 3. Thing is though they're pros, don't think any of them even knew this forum existed. Forums can give you a very skewed view of the reality of any product.
Mostly the users have parted with their money and are happily using what they've bought to earn a living, they don't have time to crow about it from the roof tops, only time they might come here is if they've got a problem.

For what it's worth I use the scopes a lot, I'd be lost without them but then again I'm an engineer not an artist, I live by what I can measure.

Well, one feature film is currently being edited using vegas. It is called Kriegerherzen. A fantasy movie being produced by many enthusiasts and some pros with spare time in Germany. check www.kriegerherzen.de

cheers

arafin2

Spot, you bring out some very interesting and valid points!

In all honesty, there are some tools (many) that I have yet learned how to use, the scopes being at the top of the list. Unlike Farss, I'm not an engineer. I wish I had more experience in that area! Perhaps I could pursuade him to give me private lessons. ;o)

However, I do use the surround tools and external monitor. I know that I have only scratched the surface of this excellent program, and with the annual updates, I feel that I'll never catch up. I've got your DVDs (excellent reference material) and so I guess your book is next!

Much of what has been said in this thread, and others like it, I simply chalk up to "youthful exuberance."

J--

... external monitor. Yeah. I've been trying it since I got VV3. Worked well for a while then I could never get it back to work properly (ie flawlessly) with both Win2K and XP, different installations throughout time. End result: never dared investing in just a simple good TV set to monitor up to now. Thrown money. Needless to say, never used that much scopes for color correction too. Just this monitor issue brings consequences "in chain"...
I'm probably going to upgrade my whole system in the next months and I'll try again. Then if it doesn't work I'll do like Spot :
hell, will I *scream* !!!

I know it sounds bizarre but I'd like to keep my preview on the computer screen when I go on ext. monitor too.

Spot,
I use the external monitor and scopes on a daily basis. I have used Vegas for Broadcast and Corporate programs for the past 2 years- moving away from Avid Symphony (I started my own company and the Symphony was simply not in the budget). I have been amazed at what I can do in Vegas- we just finished a 4 minute animation for a corporate trade show. We completed the animation in Lightwave and brought the Targa sequences into Vegas as uncompressed 720 x 486...edited / composited the final sequence, rendered it out uncompressed and then took that sequence into Premiere Pro to render the sequence as a sequential Targa sequence for import into the clients Avid. It was kinda fun sitting in their edit suite watching these guys edit on their Uncompressed (Meridian) Avid and have all sorts of problems and watching their workflow was painful!
My company has 4 edit systems- Discrete Edit 6, Premiere Pro, FCP and Vegas...we seem to opt for Vegas 99.9% of the time.
We are now looking at 2 more systems for uncompressed Vegas work that will include a standalone uncompressed SDI capture in the avi flavor...should work fine with Vegas-in the Dual Xeon systems we are building. I can't wait!
We have made a living using Vegas and Lightwave...sorry for rambling but wanted to post some comments about Vegas and using all the tools on a daily basis as the backbone of the company.
The only part of Vegas I do not use is the MPEG encoders...I had to spend some major capital for the CCE SP encoder and I have to say- our anaimation looks extremly better using CCE over the Mainconcept native encoder- otherwise Vegas is a great package!
My wish list (but cant complain because of the price for Vegas) is not having roto-spline matte capabilites (include rotoscoping) and time code / EDL support. Looking forward to NAB and seeing what direction Sony is taking!
Mike

Spot :........1. External monitor to be sellable
2. Codec that had value, and was as good if not better than what Canopus was offering.
Oddly enough, most of the people I've talked to over the years don't care about either one

Wow , cant imagine editing without an external monitor,,, and well a good codec ?thats kinda important I'd say.

>>Does anybody know of any well known movies edited using Vegas?<<

...Gone With the Wind and the Wizard of Oz ....all done on Vegas 1b...

Ranger Jay,

Could you please contact me.

Newsshooter@hotmail.com

--Jay Mitchell

Wasn't "The Jazz Singer" 1927 edited in Vegas? As the first talkie I am sure they counted on SF expertise in audio. And didn't SF invent the Nagra?

John

... I got an SF wax cylinder at home...