I dont have anywhere NEAR a stable vegas system, but I do have a system I use daily with 52 inputs and outputs, which I make albums on every day. We loose billable time left and right from crashes and weirdness, but then again, without vegas' editing power most of these new bands wouldnt stand a chance in hell of sounding halfway almost sort of kind of decent.

If your track counts are low or you dont need too many ins and outs there are tons of somewhat stable systems out there...if you need 24 I/O's in a real world setup, Id be just as interested in finding a stable or near stable one

Dont throw out the baby with the bathwater. Stability on native systems is a pain in the ass. Yeah I know someone's friends uncle runs 400 tracks of 24/96 on his nuendo system and has yet to reboot his computer and some other guy is launching space shuttles with logic and no crashes, but in the real world, theyre all sketchy ass compromises

Decide if its worth it to you to put up with silly troubles, laughably missing features and reboot-o-thons, in order to get the massive editing power vegas has. If its not worth it, stick with a console, razor blade and tape recorder. You arent going to find happiness in any other native system, and the proprietary DSP systems have their own troubles, chief of them being incompatibility with the zillions of dx and vst plugs

I just built an AMD Opteron 244 Dually on a Tyan Tiger board.

Well, needless to say its a SMOKIN' system!

I currently have V4 running on 6 different machines. I only use V4 to mix multitrack audio.

I have everything from P4 Rambus (my favorite intel mem) to PC800 .... from Duron to K6 & K7 SDRAM to latest 64 bit Opteron Dually....

V4 doesn't hyperthread.... SOOOO .... the dually is overkill, but....

I personally prefer using the M-Audio Delta soundcards. I have found (especially with the final release of ASIO drivers) that these cards are easy to configure and work/sound exceptionally.

I have found that different plugins on different systems provide different CPU usage results and that there is no Rhyme or Reason as to why or what causes the variances.

All of my systems are running XP Pro OS w/SP1 and optimizations from resource:

Tuning Tips

I would suggest not to do #11 .... you'll know why when you look at it.

Nevertheless, even my whimpiest system; an old Duron machine that I am currently typing into this forum with, can run a 5 minute, 24 track, 24 bit 44.1k project with a decent number of substantial plugins online without any problems.

But, I will say that the Opteron Processors are unbelievable and I have yet to completely find out what the limits of the dually are, at this point. I do know that nothing I have given has bogged it down yet....

I will give you an update as soon as I get into my next project's mix (next week).

You can contact me directly at my site if you want some more specific info:

Todd Rubenstein

P4 2.4; 3/4GB RAM; 7200 ide disks; m-audio delta 410.

In Vegas, I get about 6-8 tracks of clean multitracking with one or two native Vegas plugs per track. Once I get up to about 8 tracks I get pops and clicks and stuttering. After enough playback, like 2 mins, it freezes up terribly.

I use it for 5.1 mixing without much problem at all because I'm using less tracks than normal with no plugs or envelopes. I still have the same playback issues after about two minutes or so but not as bad as when I have tried to get a big multitrack session going.

On this same system, I changed to Nuendo cause I got a cheap copy. Immediately with no changes whatsoever since using Vegas, I was able to track like 20 tracks with lots of plugs and envelopes no problem at all. I then started playing with MIDI and switched to Cubase(almost the same as Nuendo but better MIDI) and added Reason. Now I can have dozens of instruments and samplers in Reason, dozens of tracks in Cubase, Absynth and Kontakt running in Cubase, and everything synced through Rewire.

It's absolutely amazing.

So you be the judge. Like I said, I still use Vegas for 5.1 mixing and liek it fine. I loooove it for video...there's none better for me.

If it comes down to a choice between "silly troubles, laughably missing features and reboot-o-thons" and "a console, razor blade and tape recorder," I'd opt for the console, razor blade and tape recorder any day.

I can't believe that it is impossible to build a stable DAW though, and will certainly give it a shot. Having built many hundreds of computers, I'm not shy about that. If I can't make Vegas work reliably, I'll try Nuendo or something else.

I'd really like to have 24 or more tracks with various plug-ins, along with soft synths, a sampler, etc., all running on this system. But I'm also not averse to building dedicated computers for every function if that turns out to be the only way to get stability. Having everything on one system would be cool in many ways though, not the least of which being the ability to save everything in one context.

Thanks for the reply. I may take you up on the offer of more info, if my path ends up leading in the direction you've gone. I'm hoping someone has a killer Vegas system out there based on the Asus P4P800 MB and can tell me about it.

*******P4 2.4; 3/4GB RAM; 7200 ide disks; m-audio delta 410.

In Vegas, I get about 6-8 tracks of clean multitracking with one or two native Vegas plugs per track. Once I get up to about 8 tracks I get pops and clicks and stuttering. After enough playback, like 2 mins, it freezes up terribly. *******

How do you make this happen?

I can't make this happen in any of my machines.

I tried. Every single machine I have runs 10 24bit 44.1k tracks with both the Waves Rennaisance Compressor & 4 Band EQ at less than 20% CPU.

What else are you running with Vegas?

I don't get snaps and pops until I'm averaging around 80% CPU.

Have you optimized your OS?

What OS are you running?

I'm just curious, because I hear a lot of people talking about all of these problems and I'm not experiencing them.

Is it just because I'm only mixing in the program?

How are your 7200 IDEs configured?

I have all of my systems (SCSI and non SCSI) streaming audio from a drive that is independent from the OS/Application drive. SCSI machines are setup with SCSI as OS/App drive. IDE machines have OS/APPs on the primary master and stream audio off the primary slave.

I never stream audio from the secondary IDE buss, as this buss always has an offline device (I.E. DVD or CD burner or DTL). I'll put a storage drive on the secondary buss (like on a carrier), but I will NEVER attempt streaming audio from or to it..... that is only for backing up files.

***********Thanks for the reply. I may take you up on the offer of more info, if my path ends up leading in the direction you've gone. I'm hoping someone has a killer Vegas system out there based on the Asus P4P800 MB and can tell me about it.***********

I can tell you that I was EXTREMELY dissapointed with the P4P800 MB that I had. So much so that I got rid of it.

I had the latest 3.4 P4 with 2 gigs of matched HyperX DDR.

A benchmark test, rendering and processing a 12 song PMCD master using the exact same files and processing configuration showed only a 3% overall increase in rendering speed over a 2G P4 rambus machine.

The Rambus machine is using SDRAM and supposedly half the buss throughput (400 mHz).

It doesn't add up. The system was only 3% faster but it was supposedly processing at a 37% higher rate. Had twice the throughput and was firing two processes per clock cycle and it only gave me a 3% gain.

I'll point out that I can OC my rambus machine and keep it very stable to exceed anything that I could ever get out of the P4P800.

Memory tests on the P4P800 showed that everything was working at or above spec.

I think that the worst thing Intel ever did was drop rambus and put there focus on DDR.

That's why I just built my latest greatest with AMD technology ..... & let me tell you.... you would have had to pry me away from a pentium machine with a tow motor before my most recent experience (P4P 3 weeks ago).

Native is native, nuendo isnt going to be any major stability step up from vegas 3. Vegas 4 has issues, but somewhere somehow, someone must be able to make it work and I wish you luck. And Ill be begging for your specs!

But right now V4 is earning me money, much more than my console and tape recorder are, so Ill forgive it the crashes, but still it would be nice to see more stability

Hmm... that is surprising. If anyone else out there in Vegas-land has had an experience like this, I'll just cross that MB off the list.

Very bad luck with my ASUS experience, although its recording a band as I am typing this to you:), mine is a P4t-e reccomended by RME and kinda a sucky mobo

tmrpro:

"Every single machine I have runs 10 24bit 44.1k tracks with both the Waves Rennaisance Compressor & 4 Band EQ at less than 20% CPU.
"
You have got to be kidding me!

"What else are you running with Vegas?"
Nadda.

"I don't get snaps and pops until I'm averaging around 80% CPU."
Exactly - that's exactly when I get them. That's the problem...that Vegas slams my CPU really hard, really quick.

"Have you optimized your OS?"
Yep. Pretty sure. I followed the steps on that optimization site out there. I keep services to a minimum, no auto updates, system restore, etc etc. If that's what you mean....

"What OS are you running?"
XP Pro

"Is it just because I'm only mixing in the program?"
Hmmmm...I don't think so. I have the problem when the CPU hits 80%...it doesn't matter how I get it to hit 80%.

"How are your 7200 IDEs configured?"
This I couldn't tell you past NTFS through the cabling supplied with the PC(this is a stock Dell Dimension remember). When I was really trying to use Vegas 4 many months ago, I was only using the drive that came with the PC, a 30GB 7200 NTFS. Tell me how to find out more about what you mean and I'll do it.

Now I only use that 30GB drive for OS and apps. The other IDE is 7200 80GB on the supplied hook up from the mobo. I use it for all audio now. I haven't tested Vegas in months though so I'll test it tomorrow and see if I can recreate it. I'll post my findings.

tmrpro:

"Every single machine I have runs 10 24bit 44.1k tracks with both the Waves Rennaisance Compressor & 4 Band EQ at less than 20% CPU."
You have got to be kidding me!

"What else are you running with Vegas?"
Nadda. I even reformatted and put ONLY Vegas and my soundcard drivers on the machine and got the same results.

"I don't get snaps and pops until I'm averaging around 80% CPU."
Exactly - that's exactly when I get them. That's the problem...that Vegas slams my CPU really hard, really quick.

"Have you optimized your OS?"
Yep. Pretty sure. I followed the steps on that optimization site out there. I keep services to a minimum, no auto updates, system restore, etc etc. If that's what you mean....

"What OS are you running?"
XP Pro

"Is it just because I'm only mixing in the program?"
Hmmmm...I don't think so. I have the problem when the CPU hits 80%...it doesn't matter how I get it to hit 80%.

"How are your 7200 IDEs configured?"
Drive 1
Standard IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers; Tranfer Mode: DMA if avail - Current mode is Ultra DMA 5.
Drive 2: Standard IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers; Transfer mode: PIO Only - Currently running in PIO.

What's PIO? I don't know much about this stuff...

This I couldn't tell you much more past NTFS through the cabling supplied with the PC(this is a stock Dell Dimension remember). When I was really trying to use Vegas 4 many months ago, I was only using the drive that came with the PC, a 30GB 7200 NTFS. Tell me how to find out more about what you mean and I'll do it.

Now I only use that 30GB drive for OS and apps. The other IDE is 7200 80GB on the supplied hook up from the mobo. I use it for all audio now. I haven't tested Vegas in months though so I'll test it tomorrow and see if I can recreate it. I'll post my findings.

Hey Cosmo,

Here are a couple of things that will help you.

The first is; you MUST know how your system's IDEs are configured.

Your MB has two IDE busses; a primary and a secondary.

You must first look at your MB and physically determine on which cable your devices are connected. You will find an identifier on the MB that will signify whether it is the primary or the secondary buss.

You can have up to two devices on each IDE buss; a master & a slave.

You must make drive #1 (OS/Apps) the master on your primary IDE buss.

You will want to physically remove this drive from your computer and set the jumper to master. DO NOT set any of your devices to "Cable Select". This will utilize CPU to manage bussing priorities.

Your second hard drive should also be on this buss, jumper physically set to slave. This will be the hard drive that you use to stream your audio to/from. A folder on this drive will be selected when you setup your Vegas audio properties.

Your CD or DVD device should be on the secondary IDE buss with the jumper set to master. If you have another device set the jumper to slave.

I would suggest to NEVER put more than ONE (1) CD or DVD drive on any system unless you are using SCSI.

Programmable I/O (PIO) uses port I/O to transfer data to and from the drive. It uses the processor continuously for this exchange. Direct Memory Access (DMA) uses the disk controller to move data directly to memory without using any processor. There is not a multi-track audio application anywhere that can run successfully with a PIO transfer configuration.

Go here and follow all of the optimizations listed exactly the way they are indicated and do not do #11:

Tuning Tips

By what you have indicated, there are optimizations that have not been done.

**********Very bad luck with my ASUS experience, although its recording a band as I am typing this to you:), mine is a P4t-e reccomended by RME and kinda a sucky mobo **********

Hey pipe.... I found 1 thing I'll dissagree with you on: I love my P4T-E....

I wish intel never ended the RAMBUS development. Rambus coincides with the methods by which the P4 throughputs, as a quad buss configuration.

If you compared your machine to an 800 MZ (p4p800) buss, DDR with the latest and biggest pentium processors, you would have a much greater appreciation for your P4T-E.

Also, there is nothing wrong with ASUS MBs. I think they're great... I like their video cards too. :)

You are running 52 I/Os on a single processor system successfully (glitches here and there..... but) ... Dude .... 52 I/Os on a single processor system...

...making records everyday....successfully.... :)

That ROCKS!!!! 52 I/Os on a single processor system....

Sorry, that just sounds good when I say it.... ;)

Now heres a funny thing. That ASUS P4T-e never worked right for me in vegas 3. I littered the forums with stuff about it and sf was pulling their hair out too. My P3 systems worked fine with vegas 3.

Once vegas 4 was out, that ASUS board seemed as ok as anything else, probably the most stable version of vegas for me ever, excepting for the new unmute and unsolo bugs

so how are you going to correctly run system drive, audio dirve, cd drive and guest drive on one system? Promise cards?

>>> You will want to physically remove this drive from your computer and set the jumper to master. DO NOT set any of your devices to "Cable Select". This will utilize CPU to manage bussing priorities. <<<
I have never heard of cable select utilizing CPU to manage bussing priorities. Is there any evidence to confirm that?

>>> I would suggest to NEVER put more than ONE (1) CD or DVD drive on any system unless you are using SCSI. <<<
why?

I definitely agree with setting your drives to DMA mode and not PIO mode. PIO is very, very slow.

********so how are you going to correctly run system drive, audio dirve, cd drive and guest drive on one system? Promise cards? *******

I don't attempt guest drives on IDE machines.

Guest drive on IDE is a backup drive only and if I bring the file in on it they get moved to audio drive to stream from.

tmrpro - thanks so much for your input! I'm going to have to run down through that stuff and get all of my hardware set up better. Funny, about that PIO thing...that's for the audio drive. All of my audio lately(4 mos) has been from that secondary drive, set to PIO. I use Cubase with Reason, Kontakt and Absynth and have done up to like 20 tracks with lots of Waves plugs with no problems at all. Interesting. I'd love the chance to prove that I've actually been productive on my mess of a computer..go here sometime if you like and listen to any of the first 4-5 songs in the list...or the videos on the left. All that stuff was done with the configuration in question.

So can I assume that once I set my IDE routing up properly and perform a few more tweaks, I should see considerable improvement in my system performance?

Thanks again.

tmrpro - thanks so much for your input! I'm going to have to run down through that stuff and get all of my hardware set up better. Funny, about that PIO thing...that's for the audio drive. All of my audio lately(4 mos) has been from that secondary drive, set to PIO. I use Cubase with Reason, Kontakt and Absynth and have done up to like 20 tracks with lots of Waves plugs with no problems at all. Interesting. I'd love the chance to prove that I've actually been productive on my mess of a computer...look around if you like...you may find something.

So can I assume that once I set my IDE routing up properly and perform a few more tweaks, I should see considerable improvement in my system performance?

Thanks again.

Cosmo,

I checked out your stuff & I love it! Keep up the great work!

Kontakt and Giga both use a RAM based preload for streaming and functionality. It works below windows and they determine the best bussing methods outside anything else that is going on in your system.

*********So can I assume that once I set my IDE routing up properly and perform a few more tweaks, I should see considerable improvement in my system performance?*******

Absolutely. With all of your applications.

Well my console and tape recorder make me a lot of money by not ever crashing. I know I can depend on all my tape machines and my mixer, outboard gear, etc.

Not being a "for hire" studio, I don't have to give a rat's derriere what some band might think is the cool setup to record on. My only concern is what I think is the cool setup to record on. And for me, if it is going to crash, hang, or otherwise get munged on anything resembling a regular basis, I won't use it. I don't care how fantastic its features are.