Complex HD project on 64 bit Pro 9: dropped shots?

entilza72 wrote on 1/31/2010, 1:51 AM

Hi team,

Just wondering if anyone else doing complex HD projects on Pro 9, 64 bit, is seeing some missing output on mpg2 render?

System:
Vegas Pro 9 64 bit
WIn 7 64 bit
12 Gb Ram

Project:
1920x1080P 30fps, 24 bit 96000 Hz sound. All cineform avi's and WAVs. No high res photos.

The project has been at its current length for several weeks (15 mins), but has a reasonable complexity to it (40 audio tracks, roughly 10 video tracks, several comps, etc). There was never a problem during this time.

Over the past 2 weeks, we've been adding minor tweaks (mostly soundtrack volume tweaks and compressors) but nothing in the way of extra shots or more video work.

Progressively over the 2 weeks, MPG2 output has started dropping shots (plays back as black) during the render, especially towards the end (last 4 mins) of the 15 min mpg2. Whilst it doesn't always drop the same shot between renders, I can confirm that once a shot is "dropped" it remains dropped every time we cut back to it during that render.

Rebooting does not fix the issue, but can improve it.

It appears to be a memory issue, but there should be no reason for it. Win 7 is not constrained by the same app memory restrictions that we see here time and again for XP users. There's 12 Gb of ram avail, and a stack more of swap - theoretically, vegas should have plenty of space to play with.

The fact the problem is increasing over the two weeks we were doing volume tweaks perhaps suggests there is something amiss with the veg file.

I solved my particular issue by deleting 2 video tracks that were not required and were turned off during the render - and also deleting an LFE track that wasn't required. Seemed to be enough to squeak it over the line.

But it makes me wonder - are we starting to see memory issues on 64 bit, 12 Gb systems?

Cheers,
Jason

Comments

willqen wrote on 1/31/2010, 3:24 AM

I've had the same problem in several instances and it was due to the length of my project. I was using mpeg2 files on the time-line. I only had 4 video tracks, and 3 stereo audio tracks, but if the project was more than 17 min., or so long, I also got black frames. I have discovered since then that I should indicate only the RAM I need in "options" for RAM renders. The more RAM left over for Windows & other tasks (including Vegas' tasks) improved my render performance greatly. In other words I fell for the temptation and allocated half my RAM. One I returned it to a sensible level (from 4GB to @1GB or less) Vegas performed much quicker in renders and other processes. I'm not sure if this cured the black video frames issue, or something else did it, but the problem seems to have gone away. At least for now . Thanks for sharing your issue. I'd never heard of anyone else having this same problem.

entilza72 wrote on 1/31/2010, 4:15 AM

Now thats interesting.

I too have a lot set for the dynamic ram preview - 6000Mb of the available 11254Mb.

But Vegas isn't grabbing/reserving this, as far as I can see, at least not on a system level. And for the record, I haven't done a dynamic preview render (Shift B) for some weeks. This may or may not have any relevance.

I will drop it to 2000Mb and report back on the results.

Also, FYI I had the same problem just occur in an Mp4, so it's not just mp2. Always towards the end of the project.

Cheers,
Jason

entilza72 wrote on 1/31/2010, 4:29 AM

Got another render underway after rebooting - but until the report for that, I'll post something interesting I have just discovered.

I've been watching the memory usage of vegas90.exe, a 64 bit app on my system.

But I just realised vegas90.exe appears to be working in tandem with a process called "FileIOSurrogate.exe", a 32 bit app. I've come across this process before when it has assets (files) locked that I want to delete.

Two of those processes are running - one is constant (I'm guessing its the one that opens the assets) and one is growing gently (I'm guessing thats the one handling the output file).

I can see its memory usage is gently rising as the render progresses. But it takes very little CPU - around 4% to Vegas' 93%. I'll keep an eye on it over the ender.

Perhaps this 32 bit file handling process is hitting a 32 bit style memory ceiling?

Will post more soon.

Cheers,
Jason

entilza72 wrote on 1/31/2010, 5:51 AM

The render was successful, but unfortunately it was an invalid test:

In my previous mp4 render that had failed, I had neglected to remove the 3 tracks I normally remove to ensure success. Thus, it is highly plausable that my success this time around may have been due to my continued removal of those tracks, rather than the reduction of the dynamic prerender ram.

I will attempt a test to confirm later in the week - right now I've got some tight deadlines and need every second of CPU!

"FileIOSurrogate.exe" continued to expand throughout the render, but seemed to max out at just under 200,000K.

Keen to hear of other's encounters in 64 bit land.

Cheers,
Jason

TeetimeNC wrote on 1/31/2010, 6:34 AM

Jason, try this if your more rational approaches fail to resolve your issue. Go into your current parent Veg and copy all; then create a new veg and paste into it. This has fixed a few errant vegs for me that seemed to be surrering from memory issues. I sure hope 9d has some major stability improvements.

Jerry

entilza72 wrote on 1/31/2010, 6:46 AM

I'll try and post up some various tests and results late in the new week. If anyone wants me to try something, post it here.

xberk wrote on 1/31/2010, 8:26 AM

Here's a discussion on
FIleIOSurrogate.exe

I have always lowered the Dynamic Ram Preview setting to 32 for complex renders. This makes sense to me. But others have needed to raise this to 4000 to even get the render to complete. I can't understand it. What does Ram Preview have to do with rendering? I've had black frames too on renders but only with 9.0c 64 bit. Using 9.0b now and so far have not had the problem.

Discussion on using 4000 for Dynamic Ram Preview