Confused by 16:9 Widescreen

richardfrost wrote on 2/13/2005, 6:46 PM
Hi, I'm new to this forum. I have looked around here and other sites, and I have DSEs Vegas Editing Workshop Second Edition sat on my lap, and yet I am still confused by widescreen.

My son is using my Sony TRV60 (PAL, we are in the UK) to capture stop motion animation using the 16:9 setting on the camera. What we want to do is edit this in Vegas 5.0 and produce true widescreen output, for viewing on a DVD and also via streamed video (WMV, RM or MOV).

We did a test and the video we imported was 720 x 576 (I think), but Vegas preview showed it all squished. I think, from reading around, the answer is something to do with Pixel aspect ratios, but I don't know exactly what to do. By adjusting the ratio, we could make it look right, but when rendering an AVI, the output was all distorted when played back through Windows Media Player.

My son really wants to work in widescreen, as he is entering a festival for under 21s, he is 11, and if selected, his film may be shown on the cinema screen, so he is aiming at the best picture possible.

Is there a tutorial somewhere on working in widescreen with Vegas. We're less worried about the preview pane than the final output. We would like to be able to produce a true widescreen DVD.

Am I missing something really obvious here?

Thanks in anticipation for any help.

To see some of Robert's completed films, go to http://rstudios.brickfilms.com

..Richard

Comments

epirb wrote on 2/13/2005, 6:55 PM
Just a couple quick questions ; are are using the pal widescreen project settings correct?
Is it the preview window that looks squished? Have you right clicked on the preview window and made sure the simulate device aspect is checked?
filmy wrote on 2/13/2005, 6:58 PM
Simple way to answer is to use the widescreen template for the project settings. To make sure you are viewing with the correct aspect ratio - right click on the "video preview" window and select "Simulate Device aspect ratio".

Outputting to DVD just choose the widescreen template. If using DVDA make sure it is the "DVD Architect PAL Widescreen Video Stream" setting.
richardfrost wrote on 2/13/2005, 7:03 PM
Thanks for these tips. I will try them tomorrow. It's the middle of the night here right now. I did try using the widescreen template but the preview looked wrong, however, I did not try right clicking and selecting 'Simulate Device Aspect Ratio'.

What worried me most is that the AVI we rendered was played back in WMP as 4:3 and tall. I don't know if that's just a problem with Media Player.

Thanks for the quick replies. You guys are impressive!
Jøran Toresen wrote on 2/13/2005, 8:39 PM
Hello Richard
Here is a systematic overview of how to accomplish what you want.

IMPORTING AND VIEWING IN 16:9 FORMAT
1. Start a new project from the File menu.
2. In the Popup window choose the Template: “PAL DV Widescreen (720x576; 25fps).
3. Make sure the Field order is set to “Lower field first”.
4. Import the 16:9 video, right click the Preview window and check “Simulate Device Aspect Ration”.
5. In the menu Options, Preferences, General you should also uncheck “Use Microsoft DV codec”. This is a general rule.
6. Edit your video

EXPORTING IN THE 16:9 FORMAT
7. Choose File, Render As and specify a File name. File type should be Video for Windows (*.avi).
8. To the right of Template choose Custom… and specify PAL DV Widescreen. In this way you tell Vegas to export in the 16:9 format.
9. Now the file will play as a Widescreen file in Windows Media Player.

Joran, Norway
theceo wrote on 2/13/2005, 9:22 PM
Dude congrats on being ambitious promoting you child. Please remove his photos and personal info from the net. You're asking for trouble. There are so many sickos in this world that one could use the info to target your kid. An 11 year olds image and personal info doesn't belong on the net. Just some advice. You put his school info, his info, your family info and his face on the page. You're asking for some sicko to target him.
theceo wrote on 2/13/2005, 9:33 PM
My partners 5 and 6 years old loved TBM2, they've watched it a few times now, laughing the whole time.

richardfrost wrote on 2/14/2005, 3:36 AM
Thanks for the personal security tips CEO. He has had that web page up for a while and is very streetwise as to the dangers. will review the information there though. He put that page together himself.

Glad the kids like TBM2. Have they watched Cold Comfort, that's his best yet I think. If they like Lego animation, send them to brickfilms .com
richardfrost wrote on 2/14/2005, 3:39 AM
Thanks Joran, that's just the kind of help I needed. My lad is animating today so I will try your technique on his footage when I get home tonight. I will let you know how we get on, but that sounds really promising.

.. Richard
filmy wrote on 2/14/2005, 5:17 AM
>>>File type should be Video for Windows (*.avi).<<<

This is good except he said he wanted to output to a widescreen DVD. File Type should be "Main Concept MPEG 2 (*.mpg)" and the template should be as I mentioned before.
richardfrost wrote on 2/14/2005, 5:27 AM
Thanks filmy. Ultimately, we will be producing a DVD or VHS copy for the film festival. In the meantime, we produce uncompressed AVIs in order to preview the output on the PC. Also, the stop-mo community my son works in hosts a very active web streaming site, so we will also be rendering WMV, MOV and RM of the final cut.

If selected for the festival, they have asked for the highest quality possible for the film, in order for it to be projected onto a full size cinema screen. Given that the footage is generated directly on the PC from the frame capture programme at DV resolution, I'm assuming that the best quality we could output would be an MPEG-2 DVD.
richardfrost wrote on 2/26/2005, 11:45 AM
I know what's going on now. My Sony TRV60 has a 16:9 mode which works by using a 16:9 shaped portion of the CCD (which has a resolution greater than 1600 x 1200, as it takes stills at this resolution), and then writing this to DV tape at 720x576 with some sort of widescreen flag.

When this footage is captured natively into Vegas, it is treated as 16:9 widescreen automatically by adjusting the pixel aspect ratio. So I have PAL DV Widescreen footage, resolution 720x576, aspect ratio presumably 1.422:1.

The problem here is that the Monkeyjam software is not setting the widescreen flag when it renders the AVI. Similarly, using AlamDV2 to add effects to live action footage, the same problem occurs, and the widescreen footage is treated by Vegas as 4:3 because the flag is not set.

The answer is to take this footage and render it back out to AVI uncompressed with the pixel aspect ratio set manually. My problem is, what to set the ratio to. I naturally assumed 0.75, but that is just too wide.

Has anyone else cracked this one, and if so, what is the correct ratio?

I'm going to try 0.9375 next, but I can't remember how I arrived at this figure. I will post the conclusion here soon.
EDIT - That didn't work, 0.875 is getting very close. I wish I could calculate this figure!
richardfrost wrote on 2/28/2005, 1:44 PM
CRACKED IT....

The distorted widescreen footage can be corrected using the free VirtualDub software. I applied a resize filter and set the frame size to 1048 x 576 and exported as uncompressed AVI. When combined with original undistorted widescreen footage in Vegas, and then rendered using the PAL DV Widescreen template, everything looks fine.

Don't ask me how I arrived at 1048 for the width, I couldn't calculate it, so I just experimented.