Confusion with still images and scaling

Flyarbo wrote on 2/5/2012, 1:00 AM
Vegas Pro's method of working with still images is leaving me a little confused. I'm doing little slide show thingies to be turned into HTML5 video.

I want an oddball video output size: 950 wide by 310 high.

I've got my project settings in Vegas set to those dimensions, and I'm careful to set the output render ALSO to those dimensions. A quicktime 7 mov is the target.

I have carefully set the Project properties to NOT resize the media. But it seems to be happening anyway. I have all sorts of oddball size PNG files as input images, but they are ALL bigger than 950 X 310, so I would expect that they would all MORE than fill the preview screen and, barring some event pan/crops or suchlike, the output render image should be filled COMPLETELY with leftover image borders hanging off the plate out of frame. Nope.

If I do load a pan/crop on one of the stills just to see what it says about the still image (don't actually make any changes, mind you), the x-y size does claim to be the original size of the image, e.g., 1280 X 844, but the images DON'T take up the whole preview screen and they DON'T take up the whole final rendering. I have Windows utilities that simply inform me of the sizes of any windows on the screen, and the final rendered video is showing up in VLC as being exactly 950 X 310, but the 1280 X 844 input still is only taking up about half the video's on-screen real estate. It's a little rectangle floating in a big black void, only taking up about a third of the 950 X 310 space.

I was more or less expecting a one-to-one correspondance of pixel dimensions between my input stills and the output rendering (which, by the way, OUGHT to be pretty laser sharp video since I THOUGHT no pixel interpolating would be happening to introduce any blurring).

I assumed no adjustments to the scaling would happen unless I started changing scale in pan/crop, but nope, I'm scaled all OVER the place and can't make it stop.

What am I not getting about the relationships between input image pixel dimensions and output rendering pixel dimensions?

Thanks in advance.

Steve

Comments

rs170a wrote on 2/5/2012, 5:33 AM
Use the free Timeline Tools as discussed in the How do you turn off resizing? thread.

Mike
Chienworks wrote on 2/5/2012, 6:31 AM
By default, Vegas *ALWAYS* resizes the image so that it fits within the frame.

In Pan/Crop, right-mouse-button click inside the cropping frame and choose "match output aspect". Does that look like what you want?
amendegw wrote on 2/5/2012, 6:54 AM
" I'm doing little slide show thingies to be turned into HTML5 video.... A quicktime 7 mov is the target"You didn't ask this, but currently only three video formats are supported by HTML5 (h.264/.mp4, Theora/.ogv and vp8/.webm).

In Sony Vegas you can render h.264/.mp4, but you'll need to use an external tool to get your video into the .ogv &/or .webm formats. You can probably get by with h.264/.mp4 only if you don't need Firefox support.

Much more detail on this can be read here: http://diveintohtml5.info/video.htmlHTML5 Video on the Web[/link]

...Jerry

PS: Don't forget to prepare your .mp4 for progressive download by checking the "Enable Progessive Download" (Sony Vegas 11 only). Or use HandBrake (check "web optimize"). Or use MP4 FastStart.

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Flyarbo wrote on 2/5/2012, 1:54 PM
Mike:

>>Use the free Timeline Tools as discussed in the How do you turn off resizing? thread.<<

Thanks for the suggestion. Yeah, I saw that, but about that:

1. I also saw some issues with version 11 of Vegas. That is the version I'm using. I destroy enough of my own work that I don't help doing it.
2. I more or less took that as being an "after the fact" fixup utility. If I'm putting in new images in a new project, I'm sort of not expecting to have to use something OTHER than Vegas to make Vegas work in the necessary way. UNLESS I have a fundamental misunderstanding on this issue of pixel dimension relationships between still images and video.

In the fullness of time, I'll probably get that when it stabilizes for version 11. Everyone around here seems to love it and I can see the usefullness for many OTHER things or for going back when you change your mind later.



Chienworks:

>>In Pan/Crop, right-mouse-button click inside the cropping frame and choose "match output aspect". Does that look like what you want?<<

Danged if it don't. That's EXACTLY the effect I was looking for. And the rendered output is so nice and sharp it makes you bleed just to look at it. Perfecto.

Now...WHY do I have to do this? I know you said "By default, Vegas *ALWAYS* resizes the image so that it fits within the frame", but WHY? Especially when I have carefully set the Project properties to NOT resize the media. What does checking NO on "Adjust source media to better match project or render settings" MEAN if not this? Are you saying that this setting IS NOT related to this issue, but rather something else? That there really is NO WAY to leave the input images alone and one ALWAYS has to do this to un-do the automatic resizing? I understand it as a default convenience, but Vegas genuinely doesn't let one turn it off?

Once again, thanks for the "match output aspect" tip. You have NO IDEA what workflow futzing you have saved me from, never mind the HOURS of compensating work. I have been able achieve this effect by manipulation in Photoshop, but this is a HUGE fix for me. Thanks again. And again and again and again.



Jerry:

>>You didn't ask this, but currently only three video formats are supported by HTML5 (h.264/.mp4, Theora/.ogv and vp8/.webm).<<

Thanks for the advice, but the MOV file is only for greatest mid-process video sharpness and clarity. I run the MOV thru a post process app that generates all the necessary format versions AND the HTML5 code to simply paste in the web page. It even makes the fallback poster for IE. The output it creates is TINY, relative to the input, is still laser sharp, and makes the chore a don't-care thing.

Best regards to all, and thanks for caring enough to help. All the tech in the world is of no use without people like you making it possible for me to actually use it.

Steve
Chienworks wrote on 2/5/2012, 2:21 PM
"but WHY?"

If i had to guess, the programmers probably didn't want to face a constant barrage of thousands of questions of "how come part of my picture is cut off?" so they decided to play safe and make sure the whole picture is always included.

So now they get a constant barrage of thousands of questions of "how come my picture doesn't fill the frame instead?"

This is a case where i wish there were a global option to let users pick which default behavior they prefer. Personally, i'd prefer automatically matching output aspect.
Gary James wrote on 2/5/2012, 3:21 PM
Thanks for the suggestion. Yeah, I saw that, but about that:

Steve, I'm the author of Timeline Tools. I can assure you that the utility doesn't have any "issues" with Vegas 11. On the web site, in the Introduction to my utility, I mention that many Vegas 11 users have reported numerous bugs (myself included). As such, I was just suggesting that people using Vegas 11 should be careful and save their projects regularly; which also happens to be one of the features in my program. Auto Save will save your project at the selected time interval if you've made any changes to it since it was last saved.

Gary ...
rs170a wrote on 2/5/2012, 4:15 PM
Danged if it don't. That's EXACTLY the effect I was looking for. And the rendered output is so nice and sharp it makes you bleed just to look at it. Perfecto.

Flyarbo (Steve), here are two different scripts to automate this process for you.
They both do the same thing but one may work better than the other.
Aspectratio.js
MatchAspect.js

Mike
Flyarbo wrote on 2/5/2012, 6:49 PM
Gary:

What I saw on your site was:

>>Note: Sony Vegas Pro v11.0 (the first release of version 11) appears to be getting many reports of problems that did not exist in earlier versions. I'm sure Sony will be providing updates soon. But you should be very careful working with version 11.0, and back up your work frequently; the Timeline Tools Auto Save Project feature can do this for you.<<

I found this statement to be open to interpretation. Since it was on your extension site, I assumed the problems had to do with version 11 in conjunction with your tool. Why else would you mention it on your site? I took it as obviously referring to some compatibility problem between 11 and your extension.

Apparently what you meant was "Version 11 of Vegas, all by itself and without my extension, is very buggy. As an added bonus, my TimeLine Tools extension can even help you with this problem by backing up your work often, at least until Sony cleans Vegas 11 up a bit.

I did not mean to besmirch your extension or your reputation. You should take comfort in the fact that, if I did indeed imply something unflattering about your tool:

A. I'm the only one on the planet who has said something bad about it.
B. What bad thing I might have intimated was based on my misinterpreting the meaning of the note on your site rather than anything based on first hand knowledge.

Your, and your tool, remain well loved and unsullied. Sorry for any angst I caused you.

Steve
videoITguy wrote on 2/7/2012, 8:07 PM
For everyone:
Timeline Tools has become an indispensable utility for all users of Sony VegasPro regardless of version.

Today, Feb 7 2012 - the newest download is available for Timeline Tools with even more features. I very much recommend it.

website: http://www.nfatoys.com/moasoftwarellc/