Vegas does not currently have efx automation (other than the tedious drawing of efx envelopes along a track's timeline). However, the new version of ACID (4) does include exf automation and Vegas seems to follow ACID in terms of new features such as this. So a few folks on this forum seem are speculating that it will be included with the next version of Vegas but its unknown at this time. On the other hand, according to several former and current Protools users who have posted here, Vegas's editing power and incredible ease of use often rise above this shortcoming.

drbam

Thanks for being honest. I'm curious, though, when you mention "the tedious drawing of efx envelopes along a track's timeline," do you mean that, as with volume or panning, you can place nodes to draw a contour which will control certain settings within an effect's array of parameters?

A slight side-step: which brands are currently offering plug-ins for use in Vegas?

Thanks again.

The envelopes are for fx send levels, panning and volume. They work great for what they do.

About the editing in Vegas: you will be pleasantly surprised how much faster you can edit and line things up in vegas than PT, after only a few days of using it.

you will however miss some necessary and professional features

as for fx in vegas, you can use any Direct-x fx, many will be familiar to you, while others will be missing completely. On a positive note, Drumagog DX KILLS Soundreplacer, so you get one good plus when it comes to drum editing and mixing on vegas.

Get Vegas Video!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The more support it gets from audio proffessionals that demand these features like DX automation,5.1 surround,BUSS TRACKS,ASIO,etc...the better the chances that we'll see it implemented. Myself and others contributed to a huge audio wishlist awhile back so I'm sure they have a pretty good heads up on what we ALL expect from them for this next version. The features I listed prior IMHO are very high on the "to do" list for the next version because they came up VERY often before.

People have had great results using FXpansions VST wrapper so that you could use VST plugins in sofo products. Version 4.0 has just been released:http://www.fxpansion.com/
The support people have recieved from Angus has been amazing. I'm looking into purchasing it soon if Universal Audio doesn't support DX plugins in the near future.[Thats ofcourse after I upgrade my computer first!]

---you will however miss some necessary and professional features--no offense but which ones should I be missing?[besides what was discussed]

I get tons of compliments from clients by how quickly and efficently I run sessions using vegas. Also they love vegas's UI very much[as myself]. I use in conjunction with sofo products:
1. Microsoft Trackball Explorer http://www.microsoft.com/catalog/display.asp?subid=22&site=10563
2. Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite http://www.microsoft.com/catalog/display.asp?subid=22&site=596
3. Contour Shuttle Pro http://www.contouravs.com/cav_shuttlepro_info.html

My workflow is at an all time high using them. If your looking for a slamming multitracking app,"Vegas" [to me] is definitely it.[even with its minor shortcomings]

BTW I would update that soundcard as well to a Maudio or Echo product:
http://www.midiman.net/
http://www.echoaudio.com/

Hope that helps. Later.

I wonder why they don't just call it Vegas (without the video). Doesn't that limit the attraction of audio aficianados to the product?

Thanks again all for the help here. So, let me get this straight: even though Waves offers DirectX plug-ins which "support automation," Vegas doesn't support automation and therefore we're left wanting? Hm. That does rather disappoint. However, I am impressed by the enthusiasm of some of these replies. I am definitely rooting for Sonic Foundry to fill in these important gaps soon. Until then I am hesitant to make the plunge. For me, effects automation became an essential creative tool while working with ProTools. I guess I just took it for granted.

SHTUNOT - why do you recommend these other cards? I was using a CardDeluxe until I decided to get the SB Audigy (Platinum Ex). The numbers are great and it sounds excellent. I'm curious to hear your opinion (and wondering the costs of these cards - too tired to go look for myself right this minute).

Jeff

<<I was using a CardDeluxe until I decided to get the SB Audigy (Platinum Ex). The numbers are great and it sounds excellent. I'm curious to hear your opinion (and wondering the costs of these cards - too tired to go look for myself right this minute). >>

For comparing SB cards (or similar cards) to something like Echo or Maudio (and some that are even better) I think the analogy of comparing a Hyundai to a Mercedes is fairly accurate. As its been posted several times on these forums, if one is really attempting to produce professional and competive audio products, a high end card/interface is as at least as mandatory as a good micpre and accurate monitors. The entry level Echo Mia is under $200. I've been using Laylas for about 3 years and they are really great. Echo suppot has been about as good as I could wish for.

drbam

Not to mention that the SB Audigy has a rather nasty habit of doing internal dithering to 16bit 48Khz and is not able to handle 24bit signals.

[link!]

jklatt,

You will be avoiding a world of hurt by getting yourself into a good, professional audio card BEFORE getting into Vegas. Vegas is so addictive and productive that you will be pulled into it's seductive allure only to be kicked down hard with a bleeding ear when the Audigy exposes itself for what it really is - a beginner card in fancy packaging with flacky drivers and a non-standard 48KHZ 16 bit recording frequency.

In my world, there are two parties goin' down most of the time 1)"Listening to music" and 2)"Recording music". Soundblaster products don't get invited to the latter when I am working.

Cheers,

Cuzin B

PS - If I can throw a tip your way - The M-Audio Delta 66 with Omni Studio absolutely ROCKS with the Sonic Foundry Suite of fine audio products. Check it out at www.m-audio.com. We pound the livin' crap out of this card - day in and day out at my studio and it always works. Always.

My Echo Gina cards have been kicking butt for a few years now too.

My M-Audio USB Quattro works...

just.

Very good stuff here. I used very nice ProTools systems all through college, and I use ProTools at my day job. When I got the Audigy card, I was looking for something to use at home (*cough* for games) that would be a good system card and handle digital audio with at least some authority. Now that I am trying to accomplish more on my home computer than I had anticipated, I see the error of my ways and appreciate the insights here about quality cards.

I guess for me it still comes back to the question of automation. My main needs are creative. I really like SoundForge for creating and manipulating sound sources, but I also need to have control over the modification of sounds in real time (through automation of effects/plug-ins). Because I like SoundForge so much, I have developed a certain amount of trust in Sonic Foundry (hence my sincere interest in Vegas). What evidence do we have that version 4 will offer this? Anybody know when that might be released?

Jeff

jklatt,

For full automation action, I simply added Cubase SX to my arsenal for those more involved projects. This package is wayyyy beyond Vegas in a number of respects. Don't get me wrong - I love and support SF fully in all their efforts appwise but I simply couldn't wait for 4.0 to deliver features that I need now for my clients.

Vegas serves a specific purpose for me while Cubase SX fills another. It's almost like "This song calls for a Strat whilst this one calls for a Les Paul" Gotta keep a fully stocked shelf at my place!

Cheers,

Cuzin B

Gotta chime in here (even though I use Vegas for Video on the whole)...

First of all, is there any promise that Vegas will have automated plug-ins? Nope. Sonic Foundry is pretty tight lipped about features up until either a release or beta. That being said, I most certainly WOULD expect to see them next time around. Automated plug-ins have appeared in the latest version of Acid (although I'm staying with 3.0 until all the kinks are ironed out)-- and Acid's feature set usually seems to be a good indicator of what's to come in Vegas. Perhaps we'll see 5.1 mixing as well. Who knows?

I remember there being a post not very long ago indicating that Sonic Foundry was aiming for a Q1 2003 release for Vegas 4. I'm salivating!

My opinion? Buy Vegas. I have a limited knowledge of Pro Tools (I used it a little last semester), but I STRONGLY believe that Vegas is easier & will achieve the same results, even on a weaker computer. Hell, I run Vegas (video included) on a P3 750mhz at home, and have NO complaints. Now, I don't pound the shit out the audio, but I've had no problems running Sound Forge inside of Vegas (with Noise Reduction), with Acid or whatever running in the background.

I mean, really-- the price of Vegas, Sound Forge, Noise Reduction, Acid (if you need it) & a good sound card will STILL run you less than even a Digi002... and will be far more flexable!

I hope this helps!

David.

PS-- CuzinB: I'd LOVE to talk to you about your OmniStudio... sound quality, driver support, etc. I've been looking at it for a good long time. Looks like a great value. If you get a chance, let me know how I can contact you.

David,

Drop me a line at info@vocalpoint.ca. I would love to chat about the Omnistudio.

Cheers,

Cuzin B

I am under the impression that it has been pretty clearly inferred that VV4 will likely be out before Xmas, and have full EFX automation.

Considering the problems this company is experiencing with Acid right now - I would rather see if they can get that app stable before wandering over and destroying the Vegas world with more "added features". My Vegas 3.0 (while lack a few small things) is running evry well. Please SF - take your time with VV4. I can wait for stability.

Cheers,

Cuzin B

--Please SF - take your time with VV4. I can wait for stability.

I have to say, I second that!

Names aside (another arguement for many, many other threads), I have never, never seen an app. that was so close to 'all things to all people.' I mean, there are certain little things that I'd like to see in Vegas, but in virtually every respect, I've never seen a more flexible, powerful tool... especially considering the price point. The editing is strong, and just as importantly, intuitive. I can't cut whatever video I'm working on in Sonar, just as I REALLY wouldn't want to open up Avid Xpress 3 or Premiere and try to record a piece of music. Vegas (and I'm still only using 2.0) is flexible enough to let me be creative. I'm hoping that it doesn't follow Acid's trajectory into 4.0... as much as I can't wait to see the new version, I WILL wait as long as I have to for it to be perfect (or as close as it can be) right out of the box.

And SF-- I've got my fingers crossed for you with Acid 4! Once all of the bugs are ironed out... all I can say is WOW! Acid (and Acid 2 was my introduction to Sonic Foundry) will be at a whole new level...

David.

Stability is certainly a great and grand thing. In jklatt's case tho, he may be giving up stability at the same time as he is losing a few ( somewhat vital ) features. Noone's gonna say PT doesnt crash, but stability wise, running mostly on hardware is a WHOLE nother level.

Hopefully, there is something to be gained by going to Vegas, and to me thats editing power.

Vegas is also great and couldnt be better for recording one or two tracks at a time. But recording and mixing bands, ESPECIALLY during punches is where we REALLY could use some work and features to be updated in vegas. Record groups, REAL fader groups, mute groups etc... would be really really handy here

also the ability to turn up or down a track while it is record armed is a MUST. Should have been fixed in vegas 2 or 1.0a even. And by now at vegas 3, the ability to arm or disarm tracks on the fly would be about time.

If you need some of upcoming features don't buy Vegas now !!!
Sonic foundry has a strange pricing scheme and the update price could be almost as much as a good deal you can have on Vegas now !!!
So if you need features from Vegas 4 wait but if all Vegas 3 features are enough for you then really get it.
I am using Vegas for mastering and I think it is a great piece of software !
Very smooth reactions, very intuitive the UI is great and thoughful features everywhere !!

My 2c about Vegas. I've been using vegas extensively lately. I have a 1.9 Ghz machine w/XP. Latest Delta 44/DiO drivers, Vegas 3.0c. The system cannot handle 32 tracks with the only effect on the tracks being EQ. To mix, I have to mute a bunch of tracks that are not used in that part of the song. It is a real pain.

Not to mention that I feel like any minute Vegas will (and it does) crash. I remember one time having to play with it (not sure what I ended up doing) for 20 minutes before I could record something without it crashing. We would record vox, be like "hell yeah perfect", press Stop, and VV crashes only to lose that take (the wav was 0 bytes). The list of problems I've had is quite long and I've never received any help from custom support. They answer very quickly mind you, but the only answer is that Vegas cannot possibly be crashing it must be your drivers. I gave up long ago.

I'm thinking about moving up to a new system that is more stable and has good features. Please advise.

BTW, I would like to keep SoundForge 6.0 as that is extremely solid and have never had an issue with it.

George,

I would have to second your comments on Vegas. I recently refitted my main studio with a 2.53GHZ Intel P4, ASUS P4B533-V and all the finest trimmings money can buy and you would think Vegas 3.0 would just rip but it doesn't. I recently worked on a radio promo that approached 16-20 tracks, and then the screen display drags...the app starts to feel bloated (like it's time for the sweatpants after a big turkey dinner!) and Yes - that uneasy felling like I am going to lose my work at any given minute. I can't figure out what the deal is. I am using the industry standard Matrox G450 dual display and while all my other apps remain tight and responsive, Vegas just runs outa steam when the track count climbs.

It has reached a point now where I have had to delegate Vegas to what I like to call "small project" status. Basically about a 12 track maximum. Don't get me wrong - It is not acting up as far as recording goes but on screen and for general responsiveness and feel, it's a dog when taxed a bit.

Probably not the place to talk this up but I have moved my large projects over to Cubase SX. Mixed my first 40+ track project in SX last night and it is a dream to work with. I couldn't get it to bend no matter what I threw in there. It was responsive and tight for the whole session with no complaints or hiccups or whimpers...and to these ears - it's sound is way beyond Vegas...much more open and musical.

I am also with you on Forge - great app...works all the time...have no plans to switch 2 track editors...

Cheers,

Cuzin B

I swear that every P4 machine I have seen runs vegas slower than my old dual P3 700.

Like you I now have a p4 2.4. It seems like the machine only wants to do one thing at a time, as if it gets hijacked by any piece of hardware or software easily

for instance, burn a cd , system is totally crippled till its done. or render in vegas, rest of system is hostage