It's not visible in a screenshot though....

What I mean is the effect that with only 25 frames per second , you can actually see the frames changing like an old film projector. I somehow believe that not everyone is equally sensitive for it though otherwise this mode wouldnt even be on camera's I suppose! Just the plain footage from a camera with 25p is really annoying to watch when the camera is not fixed at 1 position.

I've seen this ever since I had my first 25p camera...since 24p is called 'cinema mode' doesnt that mean they use it in motion pictures too? Because I don't have any problems watching movies, or this must be because they fix this in some way?

It's actually the render properties you change: project property frame rate does not affect the render.

If you want to render to a higher frame rate, Veags will synthesize the additional new frames, although they will be "soft" since Vegas simply blends adjacent frames. Use AE, Twixtor, or AVISynth (with MVTools2) to create the new frames using motion estimation.

24p and 30p impart a wonderful, slightly unreal, feeling to your work, and are one element of what is often described as the "film look" (although, as has been documented many times here and in other forums, there is much more to achieving the classic look of professional cinema). However, they are terrible choices for any video containing lots of movement, especially when it is the camera itself that is moving, whether by panning, trolley, or simply hand-held.

You'll have to decide whether 4K is really worth the compromise. Have you done a test, rendering to your final format, and then viewing on your target final viewing device? Unless you are going to be viewing on a really big screen (much larger than 60"), and unless you are going to maintain 4K all the way through the process, you might want to reconsider your choice of acquisition format.

Could increasing the shutter length help so frames blur a bit together vs sharp frames?

Thanks John!

So if filmmakers want to go for that 'cinema look', they do have to take that into account in all the shots they make, like I expected , in order not to make the camera move too much, that explains a lot!

So maybe I haven't been testing it correctly, moving around with the GH4 handheld and wondering why I get sick watching it on my PC monitor ;)

I'll do some tests with still shots tomorrow, can you confirm if the flickering will be not so bad when I film a moving object, compared to moving the camera itself?

Another question that comes up though: how do they handle this in action movies then, where , for example, the camera is in a moving vehicle filming a car chase or something? Or when using a steadycam?

One difference is that film was almost always shot with a shutter speed 1/2 of the frame rate. 24fps film therefore usually had a 1/48 second shutter. This resulted in action shots being rather blurred and that helped make the motion seem smoother.

Digital video usually uses a much faster shutter speed, resulting in much crisper and therefore more discrete images. That does lead to more strobing during action than film. If your camera allows it try using a slower shutter speed.

"I somehow believe that not everyone is equally sensitive for it"

This is very true. The average human eye/brain combination refreshes the entire visual field about 24 to 25 times a second. This is why 24 and 25fps frame rates work well for the vast majority of viewers. There are exceptions. We had one manager who couldn't stand the LCD monitor we replaced her old CRT with. She could actually see the pixels turn on and off even though it was a 72Hz refresh rate and it gave her severe headaches. She didn't have the problem with the CRT because of the persistence of the phosphors.

Yeah I noticed that too!

A friend of mine who is also a filmmaker didn't even notice the flickering with his own Sony Z5E camera in 25p mode and uses it all the time. I bought the same camera, did one test with it in 25p and decided not to EVER use this mode again.... :)

BTW I am in a PAL region so my Lumix shipped with the system frequency at 50 Hz, but I can set it to NTSC allowing me to shoot 4k at 30fps.

Would that be a problem nowadays to have footage at 30p , since all the usage is mostly internet or modern TV's with high refresh rates?

Maybe if I make a music video and sent it to a TV station , I guess they want 25p?

What happens if you render 30p footage into a 25p movie?

I too am sensitive to the 25p motion judder. That is why I only record in 50p. I have always lusted after the Sony AX100 - not that I'm 4K ready as yet, just for the great camera and larger sensor that it has compared to my curent camera. But, for a future proof move I wont do it as it does not do 4K 50p.

I'm not sure what your vegas results will look like rendering as 50p. I have a feeling all that judder will just be converted into blur and look equally as horrid.

My only advice, depending on your own goals, is to either go back to 1080 50p or as others have said, choose your shutter to 1/50 which will soften the judder somewhat or make sure you choose your shots with the judder in mind. No fast pans, movement coming more towards you rather than cross shot.

My misses can't tell the difference, but I think especially in this enthusiast setting we notice this more. If I look slightly to the side of my TV I'm certain I can see the refresh flicker! One of those things. Also at the cinema, I always try and watch the HFR version of films, even top budget films annoy me with their low frame rate on occasion.

50p all the way!