you need to film it out -- do not compress anything ....

you would render it out as a frame sequence as Targa or RGB files (or some others) and load those onto DLT tapes or hard drives ... these would be at vegas max resolution of
2048 x XXXX.

I uprez those to 4k - or 3k at the least for 35mm in another program ....

you can also render it out uncompressed or QT lossless and load that into some other app/system with hardware support and save out to D5 -HD

you also can save it out in LOG format (but not from vegas) ....

i suggest you have the post house set up the color curves if you dont have knowledge of this ..


you will want to get a minute only done first and screen that .... before you spend the weeks and weeks doing the whole thing only to find its to dark or has artifacts or something...

Wow, thanks.

90 min film setup is almost 25K

Each print after around 3700 bucks

Is this 'normal' rates in the Industry?

A small release to 100 theatres would cost around 400K just for film

Seems steep

welcome to hollywood. Its not cheap to play this game. :)

Studio to Net is happening, it is relatively cheap to produce, but you need a network to move it, so Indy studio to net is now a reality, but you need a large network of sites to push a title. Soon you may see Indy to theatre via digital satellite as per this article saying within 3 to 5 years digital theatres will be the norm

http://www.nfb.ca/ecinema/cinema_en.html

Interesting how the article says 2K to 2500 is the cost of prints for theatres right now

I don't know how they ship to other theatres at 750 a print, that seems outrageous.

500-750 a shipment would be two way ..... that is what it cost us on average to ship world wide ... those are CND $$ also, and would include bonding and broker fees ...

Actually, that is comparatively inexpensive. Contact someone like CFI or Technicolor and see what they charge!

Jay

Many Regal Cinemas (and maybe others) now have the capability to play mpeg files. You might investigate this approach rather than transfer to film.

They show a lot of commercials and trailers from a video projector and in most cases, it looks very good.

Dave T2

Personally I cant wait until we end up with web distribution as a viable avenue for indy filmmakers. No need for ridiculous conversion costs and even less for mass production.

That's interesting (the Regal comments).

I only started thinking about theatres since the president of a major film company contacted me about getting exclusive rights outside the US for my films. If some theatres now do digital from mpeg or dvd's I might then consider that as a possible venue for these films. I made these films for premium content on my niche sites on the net knowing they would be able to be dvds to video stores, but the film distribution is interesting, especially if it could be done digitially. It's nice to know Vegas could create source files though for film prints. If some studio likes the films enough to try to do a film distribution instead of a dvd store release I'm happy to know I can create what is needed to see our work on a big screen.

Go to http://www.regalcinemas.com/

There is a link on the left to REGALCINEMEDIA. Under there they have two PDFs listing technical specs for their MPEG projections before the movie. It might give you some useful informaiton.

Dave T2

Not too long ago, I asked the same question on the forum about finding backers etc...The more research I did, the more I realized I could get a crap less if my works ever see the big screen. Yeah it would be nice and it would probably make more money for me in the long run but you have to figure that more people will stick their hands in your pockets.

Then I thought about sole DVD/Net distribution deal and how it would translate to success for me. It was a no brainer. Even though you wouldnt get the same kind of exposure you would with a big screen production, you would have more control of distribution in this aspect, especially with digital distribution coupled with DRM.

If you think about it, your film's only gonna make what its going to make. Let me explain. Lets say that you release your film and you total $1M in sales. The same people will see/purchase it in the theatres as they would digitally. Now it cost you $400K for the film conversion so you end up with $600k net profit. Whereas, digitally, you have a multitude of opps here. Rentals, out right purchase, etc. $1M sales - cost of digital production (est. $1-2k) and you have turned a bigger profit. Not to mention, you only have to encode to your supported ditro formats (H.264 AVC, WM9, etc..) Then you offer DVDs to those that want to use their TV/DVD players.

With the plethora of new playback devices coming out this year that supports WM9, Mpeg-4 ASP (Divx, Xvid, Nero Digital), H.264 AVC, why everyone is so stuck on film distro is beyond me.

Its going to happen sooner than later. People are tired of getting raped at the movies with rising costs of admission and refreshments. Offer people the ability to view in their own home at a very reasonable cost and save them on the refreshments, and youll have a happier customer in the long run.

I kinda explained this sloppily (is that a word?) but you get the idea. Afterall, why do you think porn is such a big business? They dont limit themselves to what and where they sell. They dont need theatres anymore and they stil pull in $10 billion a year. Disgusting as it is, they are smart business people.

If a major film company is going to buy exclusive rights to your film, they will take care of all print and distribution costs. They will deduct that from the revenues until they make their money back. After that (assuming they don't cook the books), only then will you begin to see a profit.

Jay

Pretty gross people. My friend they're not smart people. They are very perverse people a wicked generation. I'll stop there I won't get into a religious battle, they will get what they deserve. You reap what you sow.

pmasters, I think your comments make a LOT of sense.

I did the math on self-publishing books, as opposed to "being published" by a mainstream publisher. Without going into all the boring details, I figured I'd make the same $$$ on 1/8 to 1/10 the copies sold if I self-publish, as opposed to "being published." (BTW, I put "being published" in quotes because I consider it a rather moronic phrase----your book is published when it comes of the printing press, whether YOU publish it, or some OTHER publisher publishes it!)

As this relates to film, I think many filmmakers are stuck in the same sort of BS loop as writers are----that is, they feel their work is "legitmate" ONLY if 1) a lot of people see it IN A MOVIE THEATER, and 2) it makes a lot of money and 3) they "get someone behind them" ---that is to say, a distributor, a finanical backer, or whomever.

Speaking for myself, I get a little nervous when "someone is behind me." We all know what sometimes happens in THAT scenario!

Some of the best films I've seen are almost unknown to the general public. Same with books. Which begs the question: Is a film good ONLY if a lot of people see it, or should it be judged by its content and production values? I think the latter.

Most of the films I've seen, I've seen on DVD in my living room. Going to the movies is fun, but so is watching films on my ancient, non-stereo non-surround sound, non-HD television.

Another thing to consider in publishing or filmmaking is SPEED. It takes an eternity to get a film made and projected in a movie theater. Books take an eternity via a conventional publisher. But the do-it-yourself publisher or filmmaker has the advantage of CONTROL and SPEED, if not distribution.

But, as I said, the do-it-yourself need not distribute NEARLY as many units for the same profit as the non-DIYer must.

I dunno. Maybe I'm an amateurish moron. But I kinda like having control over my work, and keeping almost all the profit for myself.

Cervama,

I agree whole heartedly. However, the point I was trying to make is that type of business/community typically tends to lead the way when it comes to early adoption of technology. Sadly, that is what spurred VHS player sales in the 80s. It also spurred computer sales in the mid 90s. Unfortunately it will spur sales for new technology.

Their business model is what I was referring to. It if it werent for those types to show that you could actually make money off of subscriptions to site content, then subscription based billing (Napster, etc..) wouldnt work today.

As much as what they do disgusts me, you have to give credit in the fact they know how make money with their distribution models.

The same thing can be said with regards to Itunes. Once media was available in a digital format, aceeptance came fromt he public. No longer did they need to go to Best Buy and get screwed on the cost of a plastic disc. Once companies start releasing more digital content online is when they will see better profit margins, and after all, to Hollywood, thats the only margin that matters.

"I dunno. Maybe I'm an amateurish moron. But I kinda like having control over my work, and keeping almost all the profit for myself."

Not at all. Dude, this is exacly what I was talking about. We have become so programmed that success means having some major compnay slobber all of your work and then take most of the cash.

Being an independent means you can turn around products much much quicker and your right, the profit and control is yours.

Now think about this, some will say, what about advertising? How will people know your film exists. Simple. If you have the cash to advetise on TV, its no different than runing a commericial that lets the user know the web address they can go to view/purchase. Net advertising is way more simple and less costly as well.

It may take a while, but this market is the indie film makers market and it will be successful. And once the studios finally do catch on like the music industry did, it will be too late as consumers will realize they dont have to spend a freaking fortune at the movies and on concessions and wont accept the high priced Hollywood garbage being turned out today.

Many writers in the film biz today have accepted the notion (or the heresy, depending on your allegiances) that celluloid film is headed the way of the dodo, and that in not too many years, mainstream theatres will have digital projection capabilities as well as for "legacy" celluloid. This is accelerated by the gradual maturing of HD now under way. Sort of a Lucas vs. Speilberg scenario.

To me, this means indie makers face alternate distribution vehicles until the theatre houses of the country 'catch up,' but I don't think there'll be an end of movie houses any time soon.

A middle way, which is what I'm pursuing at the moment, is to submit a digital feature at festivals, most of which now accept DVDs for review, and look for a distributor. But I understand that nowadays, distributors interested in a festival film won't front the cost of transfer to a master print made from a digital feature. So I have to raise about $25,000 to have a good outfit like DVFilm do that, if a distributor shows interest (unless they talk in terms of TV, in which case no problem.)

.

Yes, indy/net distribution is gonna be a huge thing imho. It took me a couple of weeks to put together a 60 minute documentary on the Tsunami disaster. Had a web site up and making money a couple of weeks away from the event.

The movie was based on the fact that before the event hit a warning was put out saying thousands would soon die during the 2004 Holiday season in a historic quake. The same person hit the Bam Iran quake last year. So we had two historic killer quakes hit exact one year apart less a few minutes (around 54 mins to be exact).

Also, there was a warning last year by the same person about historic killer quakes on Xmas Day, both quakes hit on Xmas day using EST.

We were doing a film about the person that hit the quakes, so we put some of the stuff showing the wave and included the info about the warnings and dropped in some of the stuff from our other film and bang, there it was 60 minutes about a historic event that will have many other films popping up about it sooner or later.

Being able to put out a film about such an event that quick shows a major positive about the net.

Now if theatres were digital, it could be in theatres too.

We get 9.99 right now for downloads and we sell DVD's for 35 bucks which includes shipping.

I could probably sell a little more at lower prices, but since I charge 30 bucks for downloads of our ebooks I can't see discounting to where all the majors are at on mass appeal stuff. I think 19.99 for a DVD is way too little for my indy stuff, I know the public pays more.

The problem with festivals is, YOU have to PAY for your film to even be considered, and there's no guarantee you'll get a screening.

Another route for the DIYer is microcinemas. Small-scale indy venues seating 100 people or less are sprouting up all over the globe. Check out www.microcinema.com and look at their database of screening venues. Book your movie like you would a touring rock band. Many of these places will share the gate with you, and NO ENTRY FEES! It's a great way to get an underground buzz going about your work, and if you can sell DVDs on site or take orders to boot. Besides, home video is where the action is. Even Hollywood studios consider theatrical release as advertising for the DVD sales.

I ran a microcinema here in Madison by myself for three years. I was the first in town, and I inspired enough competition that eventually, I decided it was too much work and quit to focus on my own movies.

Hey, don't laugh, the Lumiere Brothers (and therefore all ciinema) got their start the same way.

QUOTE: "Actually, that is comparatively inexpensive. Contact someone like CFI or Technicolor and see what they charge!

Jay"


we use CFI , as well as have our own film printer for 70mm ... these cost are for SHIPPING - not the print costs ...

QUOTE; " That's interesting (the Regal comments).

I only started thinking about theatres since the president of a major film company contacted me about getting exclusive rights outside the US for my films. If some theatres now do digital from mpeg or dvd's I might then consider that as a possible venue for these films. I made these films for premium content on my niche sites on the net knowing they would be able to be dvds to video stores, but the film distribution is interesting, especially if it could be done digitially. It's nice to know Vegas could create source files though for film prints. If some studio likes the films enough to try to do a film distribution instead of a dvd store release I'm happy to know I can create what is needed to see our work on a big screen."


many of these are played off the new DTS mpeg unit which does the trailers and also subs ..
The projectors are nothing to write home about ... some theater use other means also - like dvd ..

B JM, I understood that, and my comment was not directed at yours.

Jay