Correct what?

Rory Cooper wrote on 11/30/2008, 10:44 PM
This is a continuation of an earlier thread
I would really appreciate the insight of the guys on this forum

Colour correction when do you?

1.Is it a matter of taste?
2.What do you look for to decide this clip needs correction?

The little I do know is that contrast comes not from colour but tonal values
To see the contrast turn the clip into black and white then set your contrast. Look at your shadows they mustn’t never be black and set accordingly

For color correction????
I just go by what looks good for that clip someone else would adjust it differently
And I try to set a pallet for example a jungle shot lots of green I let the green dominate the shadows so that your subject looks as if it belongs on the scene and creates mood
So where are the goal posts? What is good and what is bad ?


3. Do you drop your contrast even lighter because plasmas are dark and tend to boost the blacks?

There are many experienced guys on this forum and I would benefit greatly from your experience

Thanks
Rory

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 12/1/2008, 9:09 AM
Rory, In the other thread you asked, "but are there any RULES, GUIDELINES, That one can follow "

The short answer is there are no rules and many guidelines. You have good eyes as evidenced by your critique in the other post; I declined to comment on others' work but agree with your impression.

Rather than try to provide a training manual (there are lots of good guides out there), I can suggest some basic skills that will serve as tools as you dive into this huge area, which is really a technical art form, from my pov. Remember, this takes years to master at the application level once you understand the mechanics.

1) Learn to identify the differences in actual images between R-G-B, C-M-Y and their primary-complementary combinations. Learn to identify color imbalance in neutral and /or memory colors in highlights, midtones, and shadows. You'll get good results right away with neutrals; however memory colors like flesh tones are something quite different. For instance a caucasian face that appears too yellow can actually be too yellow, green, or cyan, or a combination of Y-G, or C-G, and you will often need to use outside clues to determine which it is. If you have three color sliders, knowing at a glance which one to leave at "zero" is a valuable and time-saving skill. That is only the first step -- the second is "how much?"

2) Learn to see how much tonal range is in your image and how much you want to include in your result. While a flat low-range image will obviously need to be increased in contrast; with a full-range image, you will often be faced with a choice of how much detail in the highlights or shadows you wish to preserve, and make sacrifices in other areas accordingly (as you alluded to in your other post).

3) Finally, and I mean last, learn something about curves and gamma. This is the most mathematically complex area, and perhaps the hardest to master. It basically "squishes" one part of the tonal range while expanding another. It affects perceived brightness, contrast, color balance, and detail, so it's not a tool for beginners. Gamma numbers are a logarithmic representation of the nonlinear relationships. Shoot some grayscales. Play with only the overall gamma first, not individual colors, and see what small adjustments do to the low, mid, and high areas in terms of tonal compression. Then try some actual images and see where you want more tonal differentiation and apply accordingly.

4) Be patient. Make a correction, save it, and look at it 20 minutes later next to the original and go with your first impression, always! Marathon sessions are not allowed here, because your eyes adapt and fatigue. What looked right at 3 am is going to look too red the next day. Don't work in the dark. Keep diffuse natural light in the room and take your eyes off the monitor frequently. Don't use alcohol or smoke (anything).

5) Practice, practice, practice. The way to get good (and fast) at it is do it a lot and make plenty of mistakes. Keep a conservative approach. Keep a log of your sessions and their results. You'll learn more from your bad results than the good. I hand-inspected well over a million photographic prints per year back in the day, and found that radical corrections don't sell, but almost any improvement over an imbalanced original is readily accepted. As the old saying goes, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."

6) Run your results past others. If the video that you labored over for days looks too red to someone viewing it for the first time, it is probably too red. IOW, we learn to use technical tools to achieve subjective results. Obviously, much of what I have said comes from my work in conventional photography -- white balance, which is really a secondary anchor point, wasn't even a factor then . . .

Edit: Here is a collection of stepwedges, test patterns, and resolution charts I compiled several years ago, maybe someone will find them useful:
[Make new post if you want a copy of these]

Edit 2: Corrected some typos . .
rs170a wrote on 12/1/2008, 10:05 AM
musicvid has give you a number of excellent suggestions.
The only things I would add are to pick up a copy of the Color Correction with Sony Vegas DVD from VASST and a decent colour monitor.
I've been shooting video for over 30 years and still learned a lot from the VASST DVD. Glenn is an excellent teacher.
My recommendation for a colour monitor (IMO, a very necessary part of an edit suite) is the JVC TMH-150CGU ($465 at B&H).
It's a high resolution mnitor with al the features you need such as 4:/16:9 switchable, underscan, blue-gun only, etc.
Even if you're shooting HD, an SD colour monitor is still a good device to have.
Lastly, Color Bars and How To Use 'em is an excellent article on how to properly set up a monitor for accurate colour reproduction.

Mike
musicvid10 wrote on 12/1/2008, 10:21 AM
Oh yeah, and get a good monitor.
Thanks Mike ;?)

And in response to your first question, "when to correct?"
Your first option always is to leave it alone.
Green brides are obviously a very different situation . . .

My constant companion is a Macbeth ColorChecker (now $75). Macbeth also makes accurate gray- and white-balance cards, a mini color checker, and a complex digital color chart.
Grazie wrote on 12/1/2008, 2:17 PM
musivid, truly excellent advise indeed.

Grazie
DavidMcKnight wrote on 12/1/2008, 2:44 PM
Right on, musicvid, right on.

At the risk of sounding self-serving, I've written a couple of tutorials on color correction and levels for eventDV magazine, starting here

The second one will be out next month. Much of what I've learned has been from the VASST DVD on Color Correction for Vegas, by our own DSE and Glenn Chan. It's the type of resource that, every time you watch it you'll learn something new.
JJKizak wrote on 12/1/2008, 4:38 PM
Color curves can be hugely violent and far reaching compared to the color corrector spheres. I usually try the color corrector first then if I have to go to "warp drive" color curves to correct some 35 year old VHS stuff. If you can't get it with the curves you ain't gonna get it.
JJK
goodtimej wrote on 12/1/2008, 8:54 PM
Nice article, David.
Rory Cooper wrote on 12/1/2008, 9:40 PM
Now these are really quality suggestions

Thanks musicvid your reply shows the depth of your personal experience
Mike and David thanks too for your help and will order a copy of VAAST DVD

This is a few months of study exactly what I was looking for

Awesome better than I expected thanks once again guys

Rory
Grazie wrote on 12/2/2008, 12:10 AM
Definition of an understatement: "This is a few months of study exactly what I was looking for

Make that a lifetime! - But it IS and can be very rewarding. And sure, you will get some great result immediately. I'm finding the more subtler ones appear out of the gloom, over time.

Looking back at stuff I captured 4 years ago, I can now appreciate just WHY I was dissatisfied with my work. Then I didn't have the mental critical "tools" to know WHY, but now I am growing them. Plus I have and am picking up more and more of the "tools" to know HOW to rectify and more importantly experiment to achieve "another" look.

Give yourself time. That, and a pro CRT Monitor! Mine's a 15" JVC.

Grazie

Rory Cooper wrote on 12/2/2008, 1:13 AM
Sure Grazie it will be a lifetime of improvement

Some of the stuff already gels because of my graphics background but more difficult in video
I am reminded when I finished art school I went to my first Job ‘’ you were here in SA Grays AD and BBDO‘’
I was younger then doing finished artwork and airbrushing and one day this old guy came up to me and said
Your technique is good but your understanding of how to use colour SUCKS
Well I learnt more from this guy in a week than 5 years at art school and when I applied it, my work jumped up a Hugh notch
He also taught me to be proud in your work but not in your abilities

I am reminded of him by some folks on this forum

Rory

deusx wrote on 12/2/2008, 2:27 AM
There is one rule, and it's the most important one:

Shoot with a good camera and set it up properly before you start shooting, then don't correct anything.
musicvid10 wrote on 12/2/2008, 11:44 AM
**He also taught me to be proud in your work but not in your abilities**

That is an extraordinary and insightful statement, Rory.
I'm sure you'll be excellent at whatever you undertake.