Crossfade problem

Ron Lucas wrote on 12/1/2002, 3:24 PM

Sofo, I have a problem with crossfades disappearing between events. For example, if I put a bunch of video events together using crossfades that last about 2.5 seconds, work on the project doing various things, then come back to the area where the crossfades were, the crossfades are set to cuts instead of crossfades. However, if I grab the beginning of an event where the crossfade is now a cut, and move it slightly left, the crossfade comes back.

I've created a screen capture of what I'm talking about at:

www.movingmoments.com/videos/crossfadeproblem.wmv

Please notice that I am only moving the mouse a tiny bit left when I grab the end of an event, but the crossfade in its entire length comes back.

I stripped out all of the events in this project except for the area experiencing the problem and saved the VEG file at:

www.movingmoments.com/videos/crossfadeproblem.veg

This problem happens on every project I make. I don't know how this happens by itself, but I have figured out how to duplicate the problem.

1 - Start a new project.
2 - Change your editing preferences to look like www.movingmoments.com/videos/crossfadeproblem.jpg.
3 - Select about 10 video events in the explorer tab and drag them to the timeline. All of the automattic crossfades should be working.
4 - Highlight all of the new events and cut them.
5 - Move your cursor to a new location on the timeline and paste them.
6 - At this point, some or all of the video events should have cuts instead of crossfades.

Please let me know if you are able to duplicate this. BTW, this problem never occured with VV 3.0a. I began noticing it on 3.0c.

Thanks,
Ron

Comments

Tyler.Durden wrote on 12/1/2002, 4:54 PM

Hi Ron,

You are the man. Awesome use of the WMV file and jpeg to avoid easy to mis-enterpret descriptions.

A well documented problem deserves a good answer. Not that *I* have one... (just kidding)

I can repro the issue, and have some ideas:

The issue seems to be having the "fade edges of video events" the same as the automatic crossfades "cut to overlap" conversion amount the same. If the "fade-edge" is one frame less (or unchecked), issue is resolved.

Q: Do you really need to have "fade edges of video events" enabled? It seems to only function with events that have additional media beyond the selection... i.e. a selection in the trimmer dragged up to the TL.

If you don't use the feature extensively, you might leave it unchecked. That should not disrupt the auto crosfade on multiple clips dragged into the TL.

Your thoughts?

HTH, MPH

Tips:
http://www.martyhedler.com/homepage/Vegas_Tutorials.html

SonyDennis wrote on 12/1/2002, 6:14 PM

What is the state of "Options > Automatic Crossfades" (hotkey "X") during all of this?
///d@

Tyler.Durden wrote on 12/1/2002, 7:12 PM

In my case, it is active.

Update: I can also add a single frame to the "fade-edge" value, and the behavior is not exhibited.

HTH, MPH

Tips:
http://www.martyhedler.com/homepage/Vegas_Tutorials.html

Ron Lucas wrote on 12/1/2002, 7:33 PM

Thanks for the nice words Marty.

First, I do use the "fade edges of video events" quite a bit, so I'd like to keep it enabled. I do tons of trimming on the timeline, so it's a very nice feature for me to keep.

Second, I also noticed the problem seemed to only happen when those values you mentioned were set the same. So I made one value 2.5 seconds and the other value 2.45 seconds to offset them a bit. At that point, I cannot duplicate the problem, so I thought it was gone forever. But then, the problem still arose! I couldn't believe it. I can only reproduce the problem when the two values are the same, as you discovered. Keeping them just a bit off, I can't seem to duplicate the problem at will, but it still happens on its own.

Ron

Ron Lucas wrote on 12/1/2002, 7:36 PM

In my case, it is also active.

Ron

Tyler.Durden wrote on 12/1/2002, 8:34 PM

Sorry if I sound like a dolt, but so I'm clearly understanding...

When you use "fade edges of video events", you are making a distinction between freestanding events that have fades, and "automatic crossfades" where two events overlap on the same track... (the two controls being separate).

MPH

Ron Lucas wrote on 12/1/2002, 9:45 PM

That is exactly how I understand those settings to work.

Ron

Tyler.Durden wrote on 12/2/2002, 9:36 AM

Thanks, Ron, I think we're on the same page....

Here's something to look at:

De-activate "auto crossfade" button in the toolbar, and disable "fade-event" in prefs.

Overlap two clips, switch to A/B track mode and note that the "from" (first) clip has no fade-handle on the upper right corner.

Use the fade handle to create a fade on the "to" (second) clip can restore the fade handle, but sometimes not, depending on the clip being on the upper or lower track ...

http://www.martyhedler.com/ima/00/02/05/80/fades1.jpg

Worth tinkering with...?

HTH, MPH

Tips:
http://www.martyhedler.com/homepage/Vegas_Tutorials.html

Ron Lucas wrote on 12/2/2002, 11:50 AM

Hi Marty.

Thanks for the suggestion, and your nice use of the JPG :-)

Since I do so many crossfades in my projects, I think I'll just deal with reviewing all crossfades for this problem before I render. The most significant reason is the setting "Cut-to-overlap conversion" allows me to snap to an exact length of time for crossfades. For example, if the value is set to 2.50 seconds, then everytime I drag an event over the end of another event and crossfade the two, the duration of the crossfade will snap to 2.50 seconds. I really like that feature.

I wonder if Sofo has been able to duplicate this problem since you were able to.

Thanks,
Ron

Tyler.Durden wrote on 12/2/2002, 3:36 PM

Hi Ron,

As a workaround, you might use the "Numpad-/" to pop yer transitions in... the prefs provide for pre, centered or post cutpoint.

HTH, MPH

Ron Lucas wrote on 12/2/2002, 4:33 PM

SonicDennis,

After reading some other posts, I discovered that "Quantize to Frames" was turned "OFF" on my system. I have read that it is recommended for this option to be turned "ON", so now I've done that. Could it be possible this option is related to crossfades disappearing?

Thanks,
Ron

SonyDennis wrote on 12/2/2002, 9:45 PM

I'm not sure if QTF could have anything to do with this, but we'll look into it in any case. Thanks for letting us know about it.
///d@

Ron Lucas wrote on 12/3/2002, 9:03 AM

Thanks for looking into this.

Ron

Ron Lucas wrote on 12/3/2002, 9:57 AM

Sofo,

I just had the crossfade problem occur again, and QTF was turned ON, so you are right that this setting doesn't have anything to do with this problem.

However, I did discover a way to reproduce this problem another way.

1 - Start a new project with "Fade edit edges of video events" enabled and set to about 2500 ms, and set "Cut to overlap conversion" to 2.50 seconds.
2 - Bring in 5 stills images.
3 - Crossfade the 5 stills together. It doesn't matter if the crossfade duration is the same or not for each crossfade.
4 - Bring in another still and make it longer in duration than the other clips.
5 - Now move the new longer clip back and forth over the 5 other clips quickly, and you should notice the crossfades turn into cuts.

I've created a screen capture showing this at:

www.movingmoments.com/videos/crossfadeproblem1.wmv

In the video above, the still I drag over the other stills is the same length at first and causes no problem. However, after making this still longer than the other stills and then dragging it over the other clips, the problem occurs.

If I disable "Fade edit edges of video events", the problem seems to go away.

Thanks again for looking into this.

Ron

SonyEPM wrote on 12/3/2002, 10:27 AM

Thank you ronluc for the solid repro steps. We're on it.

SonyDennis wrote on 12/3/2002, 2:42 PM

Ron:

Wow, thanks for the WMV. Captured with Camtasia, I presume?

///d@

Ron Lucas wrote on 12/3/2002, 3:59 PM

You're welcome for the WMV - hope it helps. I used CamStudio for the capture after reading about it on a thread here at this wonderful forum!

Thanks,
Ron

MixNut wrote on 12/4/2002, 4:48 PM

Aaarggg! I reported the same problem with audio events months ago and was told this was just an avoidable behavior...not a bug. In addition to fades changing to cuts, there are some occassions where the fades INCREASE in duration and essentially overlay two clips for some extremely LOUD effects. Glad someone caught it on "tape," even if it was a video bug.

Here's a transcript of my posting:

Subject: BUG REPORT v3a
Posted by: MixNut (Ignore This User)
Date: 5/15/2002 8:40:27 AM

Hello,

I'm having a *really* annoying problem...Is this a known bug?:

Whenever I use the numpad arrow key to move selected clips on track 1 [as example] to track 3 and the audio temporarily crosses/overlays edited audio on track 2, some of the crossfades and edits on track 2 are CHANGED/BROKEN [i.e. moved, gone, fades over the entire clip duration, multiple copies of the same clip on top of itself, etc.].

Are there plans to fix this problem in the next update? Is there any way to avoid this now?

TIA

MixNut
Reply | Edit This Message | Delete This Message

Subject: RE: BUG REPORT v3a
Posted by: SonicIMC (Ignore This User)
Date: 5/15/2002 10:41:16 AM

Thanks we have a repro and will add this to our bug database.

Reply

Subject: RE: BUG REPORT v3a
Posted by: MixNut (Ignore This User)
Date: 7/3/2002 3:38:24 PM

Did this one get fixed in 3b or 3c? I see no mention of it in the 3c bug fix list.

TIA
Reply | Edit This Message | Delete This Message

Subject: RE: BUG REPORT v3a
Posted by: SonicEPM (Ignore This User)
Date: 7/5/2002 9:22:36 AM

If you click and drag the event between track 1 and track 3 (mouse operation), the crossfade on track 2 will not get "broken", since you are not dropping the event on track 2. Numpad move will break the crossfade on track 2 (turns it into a punch-in).

We'll try to come up with a cleaner behavior in a future version of Vegas.
Reply

Subject: RE: BUG REPORT v3a
Posted by: MixNut (Ignore This User)
Date: 7/7/2002 11:59:39 AM

This is not an acceptable alternative!!! Moving the clips with a mouse does not guarantee same placement in timeline and is slower than with numpad.

THIS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A BUG AND REPORTED AS SUCH. THIS NEW "BEHAVIOUR" HAS COST ME HOURS OF WORK IN FRONT OF CLIENTS.

PLEASE FIX THIS!!!

David

SonyDennis wrote on 12/6/2002, 12:59 PM

MixNut:

It's not clear to me that they are the same thing. Using NumPad 2/8 to move the clip actually drops it on the top of another crossfade, which changes it. The problem shown in the WMV video didn't drop the media, it just messed with the crossfades during a move. That said, the fix for this bug might also fix the issue you're seeing.

Also, dragging with the mouse has a snap point based on the original position, so if you have multiple tracks to move, it might work better than NumPad 2/8 for you.

///d@