Hi, Coursedesign...

I'm a huge fan of AfterEffects (my weapon of choice for virtually anything... for most of my life). In fact, for most of the time, I was even doing my edits in AE (just because I then also had the ability to do any effects with the footage... which I couldn't do back in the early Premiere days). That said, though, I generally do everything in AE now anyways, and don't edit in a 2nd program and import that into AE for further work. So, the integration thing is not really a biggie for me.

I used to use Premiere 6, but the interface was so clunky, I generally gave up and did things in AE, which was much more familiar to me. I couldn't believe how Premiere seemed so 'retro' in it's design compared to all the other Adobe products. Things like the tiny layer movement window were a joke. So, for many years, the sole purpose of Premiere for me was to digitize footage... and nothing more.

However, the storyboard mode I discovered made things like demo reels much easier (allowing you to essentially drop a ton of thumbnails (representing each of your clips) on the 'table', and rearrange them (drag and drop) until you liked the order they were in, then it would automatically assemble them in the timeline in that order, with cross dissolves. Very useful for me, as most of the time, that's what I'm editing... a series of unrelated clips that I have no real order planned out for.

I got the Vegas package mostly for a DVD authoring program (...figuring the addition of the Vegas editor was a nice bonus, considering at that very time, Premiere was giving me bootup errors and randomly unable to see my miniDV camera, and I was pretty much fed up with it). So, I got it (...also hearing that people loved it).

I was impressed with the fact that I could preview things very quickly (unlike having to render it out as Premiere did), and the auto crossdissolve (by overlapping footage in the same track) was nice.

I haven't used Vegas (editor) other than quick tinkering, though... as it's still unfamiliar to me (and the lack of a physical manual has meant I haven't really read through the manual properly enough to be comfortable with the software). But, I'm starting to try and learn it now (...though I hate reading PDF manuals!).

Meanwhile, I have Premiere Pro CS3 sitting there on a DVD, along with the other Production suite software (...I just have AE, Soundbooth and Photoshop installed at this point). So I've been pondering if it's worth installing Premiere. Reading the Premiere manual (thankfully a physical one!), I don't really see much change since Premiere 6... though it seems that most of Adobe's upgrades are usually higher end stuff that I really would never need.

So, to answer your question, my editing needs are actually extremely simple... Just basic editing... no effects required (as I do that in AE). Standard def... No need for integration with other software, nor any other industry formats or other techy stuff.... Just need it to spit out suitable movie files (or sequential targas). Ease of use is the most important... and again, that Storyboard feature (or something similar) would be a huge benefit.

At this point, I'm still using AE for editing... It even has a convenient feature to take each selected layer and arrange them so they occur one after the other (sequence them) with an optional cross dissolve of whatever length. The only thing lacking is some sort of thumbnailed overview of all the clips so you can get a good sense of them and their order.

Someone previously said that I could rearrange things in Vegas's bin, but I can't seem to get that happening. I think they also said I could rename the clips in the bin, and that would force them into a particular order... but that's kind of tedious.

To answer your other question, I'm not really too familiar with the exclusive features (if any) of either program.... Chances are, they are not relevant to me anyway, since my requirements are rudimentary compared to other users.

Sorry for the longwinded response! Hope that gives you the info it was intended to!

I have both also courtesy of the Creative Suite. I haven't gone in depth with it but I dont see any advantages to using it other than rendering diectly to flash

Hi, Derm... So, do you find Vegas easier to use in general as well, or both pretty much the same?

The Flash thing doesn't seem too huge... I have no problem converting it in AE or some other program. Not a huge inconvenience there.

Probably for what you're doing not much in it at all.

Ppro does many things way better than Vegas but you've got to need or care about them to make it worth your while. Having come from Premiere a long time ago I was pretty shocked and still am at some of the horrors in Vegas but after 5+ years I can finally negotiate the mine field.

Bob.

Hi, Farss.... Well, even though I'm doing pretty straightforward editing, quality and proper standards are certainly not something I want to skimp on... so you got me curious now.

What specifically have you noted that Vegas does incorrectly?

I wouldn't say Vegas does things incorrectly although you've got to watch your vision levels and de-interlace project settings if you're scaling.

Ppro has the concept of everything conforming to the project. Drop something that doesn't conform onto the T/L and it'll warn you about it. One boo boo it caught me on was dropping 23.976 onto a 24.000 T/L. Yeah it says I'll do this but not a great idea. Vegas would just solder on and at sometime I'd be wondering why something was looking a bit funky.
One thing that had me gasping for breath with Vegas (that was back in V4) was how easily I could get audio and vision out of sync. I had to jump through several hoops to unlock them in Premiere and then I could lock them again and they stayed put no matter what.

Vegas has gotten a bit better in this area but it it's still a bit of a gludge and it raises red out of sync warnings incorrectly at times.

I own an XDCAM EX1, Ppro CS3 lets me drag the files straight from the camera onto the T/L. With Vegas I've got to use Sony's clip browser to rewrap the files to MXF which is a space and time waster.

At times I edit Digital Betacam that I capture with a Decklink card. It's been hit and miss if that works with Vegas. More than once I've had to use Ppro to capture.

Ppro certainly has much better CC and CK tools but if you've got AE kind of irrelevant, I too prefer doing that stuff outside of the editor.

Bob.

Vegas certainly has its share of quirks but PP (IMO) has to be one of the WORST pieces of garbage to be ever called software.... in fact it should be illegal to call that thing "software"

CS3/4 has the neat ability to work all together... I'll give it that much... AE is pretty bloody good, and photoshop can't be beat... but no Adobe Audition?? Pretty dumb I think. I haven't had the chance to work with Encore but from what I understand it's pretty good... so I'll reserve judgment. But the simple fact that it comes with PP and without AA is enough for me to blow it all off.

Well, I certainly don't like the direction Adobe is going on some of it's programs. Flash is starting to disregard cartoon animators, and focus on 'web development'. AfterEffects 7 was a great upgrade, but the lastest one (CS4) is virtually pointless for me. Photoshop's additions are hit and miss... most being obscure, high-tech features that I never require... but a few nice additions (...although, going from 5.5 to CS3 as I did, surprisingly not that much!). Premiere hasn't seemed to change at all (....again, except for 'format' type additions, compatibilities, etc...).

I've always got the impression that Adobe was more interested in 'cool new features' (gimicks and redundant tools), as opposed to fixing what is there already (...more and more so lately). So, I was always a bit nervous about using their software for 'critical' things (like making DVD's). That's part of the reason I went with Vegas... SEEMED like it was always updating and fixing, as opposed to just adding more new features and ignoring what was there (...although I'm not certain if that is correct or not!). Encore looked very user friendly, but I read a lot of compatibility-based error posts, as well as complaints about it not being up to standards one way or another... That was enough to scare me off... Well, unintentionally, I have both now anyway (...I had to get the suite to update my Photoshop and Flash programs, and got Premiere, etc as a 'bonus'...). This happened soon after I bought Vegas, so a bit of bad timing there (...although I have absolutely no regrets about Vegas (getting it for the DVD authoring). DVDA is brilliant.

I should point out that despite sounding 'anti-Adobe' (which I'm not.... AE and PS have been my 'weapons of choice' for most of my career), I certainly have serious issues with Sony as well!... but am VERY happy with DVDA, and from what little I've done with Vegas, I'm pleased with that too...

Hi, Derm... So, do you find Vegas easier to use in general as well, or both pretty much the same?
The Flash thing doesn't seem too huge... I have no problem converting it in AE or some other program. Not a huge inconvenience there.

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Yes, I much prefer the Vegas style of doing things. However there are plenty of problems with Vegas also, rendering is a HUGE problem for me.

Ya, it seems people are having trouble with rendering with 8c... and memory in 8.1. I haven't done any real editing yet, so I can't say what I've experienced yet. I've just been tinkering so far. Today is the first time I've really sat down and tried to teach myself anything beyond the basics (dropping in footage, doing cross dissolves). I've taught myself many of the main keyboard shortcuts today... as well as things like slip/slide edits/trims.

Well, worst case scenario.... I use AfterEffects to edit as I have so far!

What errors do you get? Just crashes, or gives you some specific error? Are you doing standard def? Big projects?

Hmm... that's interesting...... I've had no issues rendering in 8.0c but all sorts of issues (don't get me started again - loads of blank frames etc.) in 8.1 - currently using 8.0c in preference 'til they FIX 8.1. Another bonus is that all the plugins work in 8.0c!

The previous version of a DVD project that was produced in Cinelerra/ManDVD (Linux) still has the edge in terms of final quality over the same project re-edited in Vegas/DVDA from new captures off the original tapes though and the authoring in DVDA is a lot smoother and easier than ManDVD; and more flexible. Still, it's early days with Vegas (only got it because none of the Linux offerings yet handle the new m2t(s) formats) and, with some tweaking, hopefully, I'll be able to drag it screaming and kicking into playing ball!