Dead Frames/Gaps

Dimitrios wrote on 6/1/2021, 1:45 PM

So lately I've been having an issue where two clips can essentially be right next to each other, but a frame or a partial frame apart. I put my cursor between them and I go back one frame and forward one frame to make sure there I see video and no black screen. And it looks fine, but then if I render the video I get a dead frame. The only other way to see if there is a gap is to zoom way in and that is annoying to do over and over. I know there is a way to close all gaps, but that wreaks havoc on my timeline. Is there a setting that can prevent this from happening? Here is an example. When viewed in the time line at frame one you see 1 clip, then if you go forward one frame to frame 2 you see the next clip, you can tell there is a gap unless you zoom in, then when you render it will be a frame of black screen.

Comments

jetdv wrote on 6/1/2021, 1:49 PM

Make sure "Quantize to Frames" is turned on.

Dimitrios wrote on 6/1/2021, 1:58 PM

@jetdv It is

Former user wrote on 6/1/2021, 2:37 PM

If they are a partial frame, then you have Quantize to frame issue. Are you sure the project frame rate matches your sources? How do you add the events to your timeline (drag, insert using trimmer, etc)? Also, toggle the Quantize to Frame selection just in case. It should always be enabled.
Edit: Looking again at your pic it is definitely a quantize to frame issue. You should not see the dotted frameline running down on frame 2.

jetdv wrote on 6/1/2021, 3:08 PM

If the left clip did not end on a frame boundary, you must shorten it to remove the partial frame so that it does end on a frame boundary. Then you need to move the right clip left one frame to cover the black hole.

Alternately, just move the clip on the right to the left one frame and it will "slightly overlap" but you'll never notice that.

Yelandkeil wrote on 6/1/2021, 3:22 PM

@Dimitrios, you'd better set your preferences (the internal one) in this way, then see the warning immediately:

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Windows11Pro: 24H2-26100.3915; Direct3D: 9.17.11.0272

Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

DC-GH6/H-FS12060E_HLG4k120p: WB=manual, Shutter=125, ISO=auto/manual
HERO5_ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear: WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

Dimitrios wrote on 6/1/2021, 3:24 PM

@Former user I think I may just have to remake my templates and have the video files on the timeline first to make sure the timeline is set for those files.

Former user wrote on 6/1/2021, 3:30 PM

Yellandkeil has good advice, That warning has saved me some headaches.

wwaag wrote on 6/1/2021, 3:31 PM

To test if its a frame boundary issue, open Internal Preferences and Show only.... "quantize". Set the two results, "Show unquantized event start and end" to True.

If not quantized, you will see a red bar and the beginning or end of the event. Here's an example, from some iPhone11 HEVC 60P footage showing that the end of the event does not fall on a frame boundary.

I have set the loop to indicate the start and end of the frame. Setting Vegas to Quantize to Frames does not solve this problem for variable frame rate footage.

To actually change the event length to correspond to an actual frame boundary, there's a HappyOtterScripts Free Tool, Quantize to Frames, that will do this. Here's a screengrab of the UI.

After running the tool, the timeline looks like this with the end of the event falling precisely on the frame boundary and you will note that the red bar disappears.

Here's a direct link to the free tool library. https://tools4vegas.com/library/

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

Jessariah67 wrote on 6/3/2021, 5:38 AM

How does this happen if you started with a 23.976 timeline and only worked with 23.976 footage the whole time? (That's what happened to me).

 

I changed the internal preferences to show, and this is what my timeline looks like...

This was a 4K timeline at 23.976 with only 4K / 23.976 footage on it. Quantize to Frames is on (I don't even have the toggle button visible, so "accidentally clicking at at some point" isn't an option - as soon as I realized what that button did (about 11 years ago), it's been invisible since.

Dexcon wrote on 6/3/2021, 5:55 AM

How does this happen ... ?

A very good question if everything on the timeline is the same frame rate and 'quantize' is enabled. All my video is 25fps yet the red edge warning appears from time to time. I've even had cases where everything is perfectly quantized but when changing the length of an event using Ripple, the entire remainder of the project goes red.

 

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 19.0.3, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11:

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

 

LAPTOP:

Dell Inspiron 5310 EVO 13.3"

i5-11320H CPU

C Drive: 1TB Corsair Gen4 NVMe M.2 2230 SSD (upgraded from the original 500 GB SSD)

Monitor is 2560 x 1600 @ 60 Hz

Jessariah67 wrote on 6/3/2021, 6:43 AM

@wwaag Where is the Quantize to Frames script in the paid version? I'm not seeing it.

Dexcon wrote on 6/3/2021, 6:55 AM

@Jessariah67

Re the Vegas Pro internal settings, I posted this comment on a very recent post about much the same subject (re Vegas Pro 17 or earlier - in Vegas Pro 18 access to Internal Preferences is SHIFT-Options):

Go to Options and then SHIFT-Preferences. You'll see that there is another tab available named Internal. Go to the Internal tab and in the search field at the bottom of the Internal window type in 'quantize'. There should be only 2 fields showing: 'Show Unquantized event start' and 'Show Unquantized event end'. Change their values from False to True then hit Apply and OK. You might have to then close and restart Vegas Pro (I can't remember if this is needed).

What then happens on the timeline is that any video or audio event that is not quantized will show with its left and/or right edge highlighted in red. You'll then need to zoom in on the timeline very closely so that you can move the frame edge on to the exact frame line at which point the red highlighting will disappear. You'll also need to adjust the adjacent frame so that it abuts firmly up to the same frame line.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 19.0.3, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11:

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

 

LAPTOP:

Dell Inspiron 5310 EVO 13.3"

i5-11320H CPU

C Drive: 1TB Corsair Gen4 NVMe M.2 2230 SSD (upgraded from the original 500 GB SSD)

Monitor is 2560 x 1600 @ 60 Hz

Jessariah67 wrote on 6/3/2021, 7:05 AM

Hi Dex. I was able to do that - never realized that option existed - and I'm gonna leave it "TRUE" from now on...

I was actually asking about the Happy Otter Quantize to Frames script - I own the paid version and can't seem to find that particular script.

Marco. wrote on 6/3/2021, 7:28 AM

I think it's not part of HOS but it's a separate free extension wwaag offers here.

Former user wrote on 6/3/2021, 9:07 AM

@Jessariah67 It is hard to tell from your screen shot, but do the off frame errors appear at the beginning and ending of clips, or primarily one or the other?

Jessariah67 wrote on 6/3/2021, 9:12 AM

@Former user Beginning and ending, because they are on two tracks.

@Marco. Thanks, I'll check that out (weird that "free" stuff wouldn't be part of the paid set, though...

Thanks!

Yelandkeil wrote on 6/3/2021, 9:46 AM

You guys I'd point out that take the proper Ruler in the projectsettings is also very important.

I myself always set it as "Time and Frames" which guarantees no conflict between Video systems (PAL and NTSC). -

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 6/3/2021, 9:48 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Windows11Pro: 24H2-26100.3915; Direct3D: 9.17.11.0272

Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

DC-GH6/H-FS12060E_HLG4k120p: WB=manual, Shutter=125, ISO=auto/manual
HERO5_ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear: WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

wwaag wrote on 6/3/2021, 10:55 AM

@Jessariah67

"Where is the Quantize to Frames script in the paid version? I'm not seeing it."

As @Marco. pointed out, it's not part of the paid version. It's freely available to anyone. The free tools library is really a mish-mash of stuff that has limited application. These tools are very specific to an individual task. Plus, there's just too many of them with more coming.

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

Mindmatter wrote on 6/4/2021, 3:08 AM

quantize to frames is brilliant... it seems few things can upset Vegas`renders more than weird frames.

I always thought it was part of Vegas, as you can set the icon in the toolbar ...didn^t know it was Wwaag^s job 😀

AMD Ryzen 9 5900X, 12x 3.7 GHz
32 GB DDR4-3200 MHz (2x16GB), Dual-Channel
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070, 8GB GDDR6, HDMI, DP, studio drivers
ASUS PRIME B550M-K, AMD B550, AM4, mATX
7.1 (8-chanel) Surround-Sound, Digital Audio, onboard
Samsung 970 EVO Plus 250GB, NVMe M.2 PCIe x4 SSD
be quiet! System Power 9 700W CM, 80+ Bronze, modular
2x WD red 6TB
2x Samsung 2TB SSD