Deck Control (RS-422) & Capture

Kevin R wrote on 5/8/2010, 6:30 PM

I have never used Vegas for capture other than DV or HDV via firewire. Does Vegas support professional deck control (RS-422 or other)?

In relation to capture from DigiBeta, does Vegas capture the time code information from the source tape? For example: When capturing DV you pretty much just end up with a clip as far as I can tell. In contrast, when capturing on a Mac, Final Cut Pro remembers the source tape time codes and can build an EDL or other output that tells you where the clips came from.

This relates to my other thread if you wish more background information:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=709271

Comments

farss wrote on 5/8/2010, 9:03 PM

" Does Vegas support professional deck control (RS-422 or other)?"

Sure did last time I tried it. Then again possibly better to use either BMD's capture utility, I've had some wierd field order issues with DB footage captured using Vegas. No reason you must use Vegas to capture. I've also captured with Ppro and edited the files with Vegas and had no issues.

"does Vegas capture the time code information from the source tape?"

Yes. However from what I can deduce Vegas only takes note of the files start timecode, it doesn't actually read the TC of every frame. This can be quite a plus if you've got a tape with missing TC. Saved my bacon once.

"In contrast, when capturing on a Mac, Final Cut Pro remembers the source tape time codes and can build an EDL or other output that tells you where the clips came from."

The drama comes from getting an EDL out of Vegas. Keep in mind that an EDL is cuts only anyway. AAF seems to work between Vegas and Ppro, no reason to doubt it wouldn't work between Vegas and Avid. There's also 3rd party utilities that'll convert Vegas project files.

Can I point out that if you're thinking to go down the offline / online path there's no need to actually capture over SDI. Sony's J30 VCRs are way cheaper and work just fine over firewire with Vegas. All you get is DV of course but that's all you need for editing. Then during the online session the big system captures over SDI and conforms. The JH3 VCRs let you capture HDCAM the same way.

Bob.

Kevin R wrote on 5/8/2010, 9:14 PM

Thanks, Bob.

Can you give me a little clue on how SDI capture works?

I don't see a "Capture video" selection other than the DV/HDV capture. Also, I see "External Control" in the preferences dialog with things like PreSonus, Generic, Mackie, Tranzport.

Assuming I had SDI hardware, how to a ingest a DB tape into Vegas? Does Vegas control the deck, or does the deck control Vegas' capture?

If you read my other post (above), you'll see why I need to capture SDI.

farss wrote on 5/8/2010, 10:18 PM

Vegas gives you a choice of ways to capture.
DV uses the external Vidcap.exe
HDV / SDI uses an internal capture utility.
Yes Vegas controls the VCR over the 9 pin port. You get full transport control.
SDI capture will read a file to tell it in/out points.
The file is XML so pretty easy to write something to write a capture file that can be read by the capture code.
Vegas will also save / log the capture to the same file format.

Bob.

Kevin R wrote on 5/8/2010, 11:02 PM

Ah! I never noticed SDI was listed next to HDV.

Since I'm scanning tape to find clips, I'm looking to build the clip log (as opposed to capture according to a clip log).

Anyone have an example of the clip log XML file format?

farss wrote on 5/9/2010, 1:03 AM

"Anyone have an example of the clip log XML file format?"

Pretty certain this is it:



- <Clips>

- <Clip>

<Name>C:\capture\Clip001.avi</Name>

<Tape>R&R_CAPTURE_5</Tape>

<Comment>mcu</Comment>

<Rating>good</Rating>

<TimecodeFormat>Smpte</TimecodeFormat>

<In>03:23:36:11</In>"

<Out>03:24:19:10</Out>

<Length>00:00:42:24</Length>

</Clip>

- <Clip>

<Name>C:\capture\Clip002.avi</Name>

<Tape>R&R_CAPTURE_6-1</Tape>

<Comment>mcu</Comment>

<Rating>good</Rating>

<TimecodeFormat>Smpte</TimecodeFormat>

<In>04:15:55:07</In>"

<Out>04:16:42:02</Out>

<Length>00:00:46:20</Length>

</Clip>

- <Clip>

<Name>C:\capture\Clip003.avi</Name>

<Tape>R&R_CAPTURE_1</Tape>

<Comment>mcu</Comment>

<Rating>good</Rating>

<TimecodeFormat>Smpte</TimecodeFormat>

<In>01:18:33:05</In>"

<Out>01:18:52:17</Out>

<Length>00:00:19:12</Length>

</Clip>

- <Clip>

From memory the HDV logs are the same so you could check using a HDV capture.

Bob.

Kevin R wrote on 5/9/2010, 1:22 AM

Yep, that looks like the same data fields. I don't own an HDV camera or I would check it myself. Thanks much. This will prove very useful to understanding my whole system design before making equipment purchases.

Cheers!

Kevin
San Luis Obispo CA

Former user wrote on 5/9/2010, 8:18 AM

To clarify, a good EDL is not cuts only. A correctly formatted, written EDL will contain dissolves and standard SMPTE wipes. Most NLEs will write a CMX 3600 EDL which allows for only one track of video, but that video can contain transitions.

I don't think the Vegas EDL will do this though.

Dave T2

Kevin R wrote on 5/9/2010, 3:33 PM

Dave,

All I need to do is (a) capture a bunch of clips from tape; (b) record the starting time code from the source tape for each clip.

Any EDL, clip log, or other that reveals the starting time code from the source tape where each clip originated will do. The term EDL gets misused and I did that here as well.

Former user wrote on 5/9/2010, 3:48 PM

Vegas will generate an EDL.

It is under the SAVE AS... options. You can print this out using an TEXT program (notepad or something) and it will give you accurate time codes as Vegas sees them.

Dave T2

Kevin R wrote on 5/9/2010, 3:54 PM

I know that Vegas can generate an EDL, but I am not aware that Vegas retains the source tape starting time code with clips. I doubt this would be included in an EDL. My reasoning on this is that video source files do not seem to include any information about the original source.

Perhaps there is a work flow that does this?

However, it does appear that the Vegas SDI capture window can generate a clip log that reflects the source tape time code.

All I need is a work flow to capture a few dozen clips from a source tape and have a record of their location on the source tape.

Former user wrote on 5/9/2010, 4:31 PM

Go to the Project Media Window and change to DETAILS. That gives you information about each clip, including the Beginning tc.

I don't know a way of printing this out, but you could expand the size and do a screen capture and print that.

HTH

Dave T2

Kevin R wrote on 5/9/2010, 5:52 PM

I imagine the Project Media Window only retains this info for clips captured within Vegas. I don't believe stand-alone video files contain this data. Thus, I have to capture this data early on when cutting clips. If the capture log has this data in text form, then this seems the place to harvest the data from.

I suppose I just need to play with it (as soon as I get an SDI source and hardware).

Thanks.

rmack350 wrote on 5/10/2010, 3:14 PM

You can copy and paste in the edit details window. No need for a screen capture.

I don't have Vegas open at the moment but I think you might have to click on the top-left box/cell of the edit details window to select the entire table.

Also, Veggie toolkit has a tool in it to export/import batch logs. It's a workaround, but a very good workaround.

I'm still mainly working in DV so I'm not sure what the state of timecode is for Vegas with SDI capture. I'm assuming it's okay.

Rob Mack

rmack350 wrote on 5/10/2010, 3:24 PM

*If* you do the SDI capture with Vegas then I'd expect Vegas to at least read the start TC from the file. However, if you use a third party application then all bets are off as to whether Vegas can see the TC.

For example, we regularly capture DV25 over SDI into PPro CS2. PPro definitely sees the TC and records it into the file. Unfortunately, Vegas can't read the TC from a file if PPro created the file. And vice versa, it seems. Maybe Adobe changed things since then, Sony certainly hasn't.

Rob

Former user wrote on 5/10/2010, 4:21 PM

Rob,

I tried to copy and paste and couldn't. But I was in a hurry, Will try again.

Dave T2

rmack350 wrote on 5/10/2010, 5:13 PM

Checking...

Some fields are calculated and you can't change them. Others can be changed individually. The entire thing can be copied to Excel or Word or Notepad or XYZ. When you right-click in edit details there's a Paste option in the context menu but I'm not having any joy with it.

Veggie toolkit kind of leverages this. You can import a text log to the toolkit and then import *some* of those fields back to your project to create offline media clips. From there you can capture the clips. There's some potential for confusion when your timeline ruler doesn't match the timecode of the log. A bit of trial and error was how I solved it (On one particular project we've been displaying and logging timecode as NDF on our DV camera for many years. Vegas and Vidcap won't cooperate with this since Vidcap insists that all NTSC DV must be NTSC).