defocuse when rendering

hbwerner wrote on 10/7/2009, 6:27 PM

I'm finding in Pro, unlike MS, when I go to render in mpeg or avi, there is a loss of focus of the material. Searching the forum, I saw a tip (more for title clarity) to add the sharpen fx but set it to 0. I do get considerable improvement, but still not as good as the original clips. I'm not doing HD, and have a Canon Optura and a 3ccd XL2 Canon, and find this problem with material from either one. When I look at the original avi clips loaded from the DV tape, they are sharp. I don't mind always adding zero sharpening, but it doesn't fully do the trick, and I wonder what is wrong with the program that this becomes necessary. Unfortunately I can't put edited veg back onto MS to render them there. Any suggestions as to how to get clear renderings? And is this a defect in Pro? I have version 9b running on 64 bit VISTA.

Comments

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 10/8/2009, 12:54 AM

Since there are so many recurring questions about this issue, I have started to think that there is really something wrong. I never have been satisfied with Vegas HD to SD downconversion (16:9 PAL50i to 16:9 PAL50i), whatever I do to tweak the best of it. This has been discussed in a number of threads. I also learned the "zero sharpening" trick from here. Albeit it helps a little it is not a completely working workaround.

What is pathetic is that good quality source SD (PAL50i) looks better than very good quality source HD (PAL50i), when rendered out as DVD compatible mpeg2. Again - whaterver setting I try.

This IS a fatal shortcoming in a software package that is called "Pro". Third party software or other codecs (Lagarith) produces better results. The question remains, to get excellent quality - why do I have rely on such workarounds and loose lots of time with this "Pro" application...???

And BTW, how can a "zero" sharpen do anything? What is happening here?

Christian

Grazie wrote on 10/8/2009, 1:21 AM

"What is pathetic is that good quality source SD (PAL50i) looks better than very good quality source HD (PAL50i), when rendered out as DVD compatible mpeg2."

Well, you say that Christian, but for this SD-er, it has been a real boon, and to THEN Upscale via my SONY HDMI enabled STB onto my BRAVIA. This has been a revelation. So, one man's "pathetic" is another man's boon! Or have I got this wrong?

Grazie

hbwerner wrote on 10/8/2009, 5:40 AM

I'm working strictly SD and having the defocusing problem. I didn't see this on MovieStudio or MovieStudio Platinum. In fact I had done an experiment once with sequentially rendering a rendered avi file and so no deterioration on them. Sounds like "Pro" needs a fix.

Former user wrote on 10/8/2009, 6:17 AM

Do you have your render setttings set to GOOD or BEST, not DRAFT?

If you are rendering DV AVI to DV AVI, the only parts that are supposed to get re-rendered are where you have added effects. Otherwise, it is basically a file copy and there should be no change in quality.

As far as MPEG, it is always re-rendered but you still need to check the GOOD and BEST options.

Are you judging the quality on an external monitor or on your computer?

Dave T2

Laurence wrote on 10/8/2009, 8:08 AM

Just wanted to mention that both "good" and "best" look exactly the same if you're not resizing. "Best" uses a better resize algorithm and if you are doing any resizing it looks a heck of a lot better. A downrez needs to be done with "best" because of the resize.

Christian de Godzinsky wrote on 10/8/2009, 12:37 PM

Come on, the "best" is the first thing that gets selected. Going from HD to SD is really heavy resizing so this is ofcource selected. As well as a deinterlace option (blend or interpolate). This is all known and discussed a ZILLION times before. The fact remains that results are soft - too soft to be explained only my the limited bandwiths of mpeg2 SD. The result is less than expected especially when downdonverting from HD to SD.

Can someone explain why a sharpen set at ZERO somewhat improves the situation?

Christian

Laurence wrote on 10/8/2009, 8:48 PM

Make sure you are using the Sony DV codec that comes with Vegas and not the MS one that is free with Windows. The Sony DV codec is the best there is but the Microsoft one is horrible.

hbwerner wrote on 10/30/2009, 6:22 AM

I do the rendering strictly in Sony Pro, so I'm assuming that this is the Sony DV codec that is being used and ont he MS one. Is there a way to verify that?

Dave Stalker wrote on 10/30/2009, 9:55 AM

There is another setting key to this issue. It is not one of the render settings, it is in the 'properties' dialog box.

Look at 'Project properties' and make sure the Deinterlace Method is set to NONE. You will find that Blended or Interpolated fields cause a loss of sharpness in rendered files.

I thought is was my bifocals messin' with my head but changing that setting produced a rendered file as sharp as the source material.