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ZippyGaloo
wrote on 10/28/2003, 8:09 PM
Comments
farss
wrote on 10/28/2003, 11:43 PM
The meters are the critical thing. If they show you're over 0dB you're in serious trouble. So you always need to keep a critical eye on them. What they don't tell you though is how loud things sound as they're only peak level meters (I think).
But when making the subjective evaluation of the mix I guess the best instruments are your ears. SPOT had some good info on how he does it in his studio. I've never done any serious work in this area as i don't really have the space for it.
You might also get some good advice form the VV Audio and Sound Forge forums, try a post over there as well.
But when making the subjective evaluation of the mix I guess the best instruments are your ears. SPOT had some good info on how he does it in his studio. I've never done any serious work in this area as i don't really have the space for it.
You might also get some good advice form the VV Audio and Sound Forge forums, try a post over there as well.
pb
wrote on 10/28/2003, 11:55 PM
This is purely personal opinion: for DVCAM -20dB peak (Sony uses this as the digital equivalent of 0dB for BetaSX and DVCAM). Corroboration: my dockable BetaSX DNV-5 peaks at -20 dB when the audio levels are set to automatic, as do the DNV 75 and DSR 2000 recorders.
For miniDV, as in recording to a consumer camcorder or VCR, -12dB. (The Canon XL1 has a marker at -12dB on the VU scale)
I suggest you use -20 dB and -12 dB as your peaks, depending on the destination.
Not sure what the magic level for DVDs is, I do everything as described above for MPEG1, MPEG2, AC3, etc.
If I am running a sound board for PA I keep my peaks at around -3dB to allow headroom, same when I used to edit videotape using real tape machines.
Peter
For miniDV, as in recording to a consumer camcorder or VCR, -12dB. (The Canon XL1 has a marker at -12dB on the VU scale)
I suggest you use -20 dB and -12 dB as your peaks, depending on the destination.
Not sure what the magic level for DVDs is, I do everything as described above for MPEG1, MPEG2, AC3, etc.
If I am running a sound board for PA I keep my peaks at around -3dB to allow headroom, same when I used to edit videotape using real tape machines.
Peter
pb
wrote on 10/29/2003, 12:24 AM
Forgot to mention that it is a bit difficult to maintain proper audio levels using only speaker output. I suppose you could do it by running a test tone and setting a SPL meter three feet from the speaker, adjust the volume to get -6 dB then use the SPL meter to adjust your levels.
If your amp is turned up to bust you will have to attenuate the project audio levels rather a lot to avoid ear damage. If, on the other hand, your amp is turned down to almost zero, you will need to use extra busses, rubber bands and other such tools to boost the playback level enough to hear it. Now, you may hear clipping at that point and your final print to tape audio is going to be really awful.
You might want to check out Sound Forge for serious audio editing work.
If your amp is turned up to bust you will have to attenuate the project audio levels rather a lot to avoid ear damage. If, on the other hand, your amp is turned down to almost zero, you will need to use extra busses, rubber bands and other such tools to boost the playback level enough to hear it. Now, you may hear clipping at that point and your final print to tape audio is going to be really awful.
You might want to check out Sound Forge for serious audio editing work.
ZippyGaloo
wrote on 10/29/2003, 1:14 AM
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earthrisers
wrote on 10/29/2003, 12:05 PM
I always aim for the low-yellows myself, including a few times I've used Vegas to do strictly audio work (e.g., recording multitrack audio to mix down to stereo to produce a CD of music--no video).
If necessary, I subsequently open a recorded audio track in Sound Forge for tweaking, extra EQ, or whatever.
If necessary, I subsequently open a recorded audio track in Sound Forge for tweaking, extra EQ, or whatever.
pb
wrote on 10/29/2003, 12:11 PM
I'd maintain the level as beofre so that if adjustment is necessary you can reuse the same preset(s). By M-Mixer you mean Mackie, right?
MJhig
wrote on 10/29/2003, 1:54 PM
Simply, you want to record all audio as close to 0 dB (clipping) without ever going over to insure you have the best signal to noise ration possible. You can always lower a track during mixing but trying to raise a signal that was recorded too low will introduce noise.
You will need to adjust the level of input by using the meter in the track in Vegas. I usually set the meter scale to 24 dB to get a good view of the -6 to 0 dB range. Keeping peaks at about -6 dB usually works well.
I have a Delta Audiophile 2496 so I'm not familiar with the exact controls of the hardware on the Omni (I use a mixer, same principal). The Omni has it's own preamp and that's where you want to adjust the level not the Delta (Mon/mixer) control panel. The Mon/mixer faders should be left all the way up. In fact for recording I never go through it I select either Delta L or R in Vegas not Mon/mixer. If the signal is clipped (above 0 dB) at the soundcard's input, lowering the fader in the Mon/Mixer will only lower a clipped signal.
MJ
You will need to adjust the level of input by using the meter in the track in Vegas. I usually set the meter scale to 24 dB to get a good view of the -6 to 0 dB range. Keeping peaks at about -6 dB usually works well.
I have a Delta Audiophile 2496 so I'm not familiar with the exact controls of the hardware on the Omni (I use a mixer, same principal). The Omni has it's own preamp and that's where you want to adjust the level not the Delta (Mon/mixer) control panel. The Mon/mixer faders should be left all the way up. In fact for recording I never go through it I select either Delta L or R in Vegas not Mon/mixer. If the signal is clipped (above 0 dB) at the soundcard's input, lowering the fader in the Mon/Mixer will only lower a clipped signal.
MJ
ZippyGaloo
wrote on 10/29/2003, 6:12 PM
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farss
wrote on 10/29/2003, 7:23 PM
Zippy,
I'm not at all that familiar with your gear but maybe this will help.
Try to get a good clean sound to the mic. Ultra important.
If you've got that even with 16/48 you can wind the gain up a fair way before you'll have problems with the linitations of the recording system.
From what you're saying the levels sound pretty good to me. Where I have run into strife is getting background noise at the mic. When you start to apply compression to give the voice a bit of punch that noise can become much worse.
AS I've said before the one absolute no no is overloading a digital recording system, that's why most of the metering looks at peak levels. Once it clips it becomes just horrid and impossible to recover. If in doubt set the levels 6dB low rather than 6dB higher.
I'm not at all that familiar with your gear but maybe this will help.
Try to get a good clean sound to the mic. Ultra important.
If you've got that even with 16/48 you can wind the gain up a fair way before you'll have problems with the linitations of the recording system.
From what you're saying the levels sound pretty good to me. Where I have run into strife is getting background noise at the mic. When you start to apply compression to give the voice a bit of punch that noise can become much worse.
AS I've said before the one absolute no no is overloading a digital recording system, that's why most of the metering looks at peak levels. Once it clips it becomes just horrid and impossible to recover. If in doubt set the levels 6dB low rather than 6dB higher.
MJhig
wrote on 10/30/2003, 9:08 AM
Zippy asked;
"I've been setting the levels via M-Audio's Monitor Mixer control panel, and then adjusting the "gain" on the Omni box. They are falling in the middle of the yellow (yellow = -6db--1.5db) and since they are voiceovers they haven't gone near or over 0db.
Is this how you would suggest doing it?"
No, as I said the Delta Mon/Mixer's faders are *after* the hardware in the audio chain. They do nothing to prevent clipping. If the signal is clipped at the Delta's inputs and you lower the Mon/Mixer's faders you will only be lowering an already clipped signal.
Use the hardware ("gain" in your case) control to adjust the recording level while *viewing* the meter in Vegas' track. Selecting the Delta's L or R as a recording input (right-click the record button in the TRACK header) will bypass the Mon/Mixer during recording and give you a direct feed from the Omni's preamp. Bypassing the Mon/Mixer also solves many audio loop problems many newbies experience. The actual level you are achieving (-6 to -1) is fine, you want to see that in the VEGAS TRACK meter though.
MJ
"I've been setting the levels via M-Audio's Monitor Mixer control panel, and then adjusting the "gain" on the Omni box. They are falling in the middle of the yellow (yellow = -6db--1.5db) and since they are voiceovers they haven't gone near or over 0db.
Is this how you would suggest doing it?"
No, as I said the Delta Mon/Mixer's faders are *after* the hardware in the audio chain. They do nothing to prevent clipping. If the signal is clipped at the Delta's inputs and you lower the Mon/Mixer's faders you will only be lowering an already clipped signal.
Use the hardware ("gain" in your case) control to adjust the recording level while *viewing* the meter in Vegas' track. Selecting the Delta's L or R as a recording input (right-click the record button in the TRACK header) will bypass the Mon/Mixer during recording and give you a direct feed from the Omni's preamp. Bypassing the Mon/Mixer also solves many audio loop problems many newbies experience. The actual level you are achieving (-6 to -1) is fine, you want to see that in the VEGAS TRACK meter though.
MJ