What Randy said. (DCR-TRV110E here)
Optics are generally larger on D8 in the low end consumer market. Tapes are robust and can handle quite an amount of transport without ending up with drops-outs. I missed out on LP mode for D8, which limits my max clip length to about 46 mins. LP is great in DV as it only increases the likelihood of a dropout being noticable, the video bandwidth remains the same as SP. I stick to metal particle tape and virtually the same brand/line, but I wouldn't mind an excuse to update the old dog so that level of care may change!

If you want 3CCD, small and better compatibility with other peoples kit. MiniDV is your choice. miniDV even makes sense from the deck perspective, if you ever what the full size DV format tape lengths etc. Same deck could support both.

With Digital8, now you also have to go up the model range to get the 8mm/Hi8 analogue playback. The lower end also have no analogue input modes as the function shares some of the same circuitry in D8 land.

When I bought our TRV110E it was also useful because in most parts of the world I could buy 8mm or hi8 tape, but the same wasn't true for miniDV.
miniDV is very much more available and is almost the same price per tape in quantity.

Hard disc based cameras and dinky DVD units are likely to have better support in Vegas5. They also have their challenges as they generally don't use DV.

Try your shortlist of each indoors and outdoors, in daylight, artificial light and low light. In your palm and on a tripod/monopod. Consider how the connections and ergonomics would stang with an aftermarket shotgun mic or possibly radio mic.

Megapixel models can be poor in low light. Always try out your short list.
Sony and Hitachi make D8.

The high end of the current D8 just touches the low end of miniDV price wise, with some overlap on sale items.

As was mentioned above, the miniDV cams advertise slightly better resolution. However, that is a function of the optics/CCD, not of the electronics of the tape transport.

Last year, my church bought a D8 to record a trip to Honduras. While I would have recommended miniDV, I wasn't asked.

I was asked to edit the video. I was very impressed with the image quality, and in retrospect, it may be a better camera for rough handling, etc. I suspect the D8 mechanicals are a little beefier and have ceretainly had many more years of product improvement than miniDV. By the way, my comparison is to my Sony VX2000 which has pretty decent optics.

I guess the answer lies in what you have for a requirement. If an automatic camcorder fits your need, then D8 may be fine. If you need manual control, then miniDV is your only option in the consumer price field.

If you don’t currently own a Hi8 analog camera then I would NOT recommend Digital8. It is a “bridge technology” for Hi8 users that is not the mainstream. If this was the only consumer format that Sony made I might have more faith in it, but since Sony now makes consumer miniDV’s, I assume they saw the future and it wasn’t Digital8. No one can predict the future, but my guess is that as a format, it will probably not be around as long as miniDV and so 5 or 10 years from now when your Digial8 camera stops working, and the format is no longer supported, you will have nothing to play your 100’s of Digital8 tapes on. I would stick with miniDV but that’s just my opinion.

~jr

Digi8 has extensive manual controls-as many as any mini-dv model that I know of. As for it's being a bridge technology, all current technologies are bridges to solid state recording, which might be here sooner than we think, w/1 gb. CF memory cards selling in the low hundreds. The big differences are in the size of the units, and poorer low light light performance in the 3 ccd models due to their comparitive small ccd size. Digi 8's used to be a lot cheaper than mini-dv, but not so much now.

Based on one thing alone--what I've seen with my own eyes--I would not recommend Digital-8. Mini-DV has a superior image. Just my experience.

J--

I haven't seen a D8 machine with manual audio level controls but I guess that doesn't mean they don't exist.

3-chip camera's are generally regarded as providing a better image than their single chip counterparts. I've not heard of the existence of a 3-CCD D8 machine either.

Doesn't mean D8 isn't right for you though.

The lightly compressed bitstream in D8 and DV equate to about 20GB/h. It will be some time before a 20GB CF card can compete with a mini-DV tape at around $5.

> As for it's being a bridge technology, all current technologies are bridges to solid state recording, which might be here sooner than we think

Amen. Tape is so archaic when you think about. You’re right, it’s just a mater of time. Bring on the solid state. ;-)

~jr

My opinion, from a "product marketing" point of view, is that the D8 cameras were designed to hit a slightly lower-quality but also less-expensive data point. Last summer I did a lot of shooting with a 4-year-old Sony TRV8, a miniDV model. My friend's D8 camera (also Sony, but I forget the model number) did a fine job also, but it was obvious when splicing shots of the same performance from the two different angles together that (1) my audio had much less of the drum "whine"; (2) his camera had a great deal more "sharpening" on vertical edges; and (3) his color saturation was much higher and, in my opinion, less realistic. I was also curious why Sony could not put in a faster rewind. It took FOREVER to rewind his tapes after capturing them into Vegas. Oh, and his camera was about twice the volume of mine. But again, I think it was designed to a different price point, and it proved to be just as reliable as my camera.

"The lightly compressed bitstream in D8 and DV equate to about 20GB/h"

Actually, it's just over 12 gig/hour. MiniDV, DVCAM and D8 all use the exact same 5:1 DVC-format DCT, intra-frame; 25 Mbps video data rate compression method.

MiniDV camcorders generally have better optics that Digital8 and there is no such thing as a three-chip D8 camera. However, as a tape format, Digital8 is arguably the most robust. MiniDV has a track pitch of 10 microns, DVCAM has 15 microns and D8 is 16.34. The track width is 10 microns for MiniDV, 15 microns for DVCAM and 16.34 for D8. MiniDV tape speed is 18.81 mm/sec, DVCAM is 28.215 mm/sec and D8 is 28.7 mm/sec. MiniDV records on 120 square millimeters of tape per second, DVCAM uses 180 and D8 uses 230. From my experience, D8 is virtually immune to tape dropouts. The downside is that Sony could pull the plug on D8 at any time, whereas MiniDV and DVCAM will probably be around for a while.

John

I'd just like to add personal experience:
My high school lost their digital8 camera, it was a b*tch to get the tapes into another format. If you want to keep your family memories around... then digital8 may not be the best choice. Robustness is nice, but not when you don't have a digital8 player!

As far as quality goes, it depends on the camera. I loved the TRV110 (old model), but the new ones (TRV250) have been watered down and don't touch the TRV110 IMO.

I know someone who has an old professional JVC SVHS dockable camera with the docked module removed and a Digital 8 camera mounted in the same space.

The s-video signal, which is acquired through a beautiful glass lens and 3 large CCDs, is recorded on D8 (The start button of the old camera has been wired up to the remote from the D8) and I have rarely seen such beautiful pictures.

Not necessarily any help to this thread, but really interesting.....