DL Burn Success!!

ScottW wrote on 12/8/2004, 1:40 PM
Ok, I finally got all the parts to try this. First, the disclaimer.

SonyEPM has posted in another thread that DL burning of DVDA projects is not supported - we already know that DVDA cannot handle a DL burn itself, but the statement of no support for burning of DVDA projects means: if you try this, you are on your own and don't go crying to Sony support if it doesn't work (or me either ;-) All I am doing here is posting the results of my own testing - I consider myself to be a pretty geeky guy, so if you have any concerns/questions about your own geekyness, then you may want to wait until official support comes from Sony before playing with this.

Hardware: NEC 3500A DL Burner with 2.18 firmware
Media: Ritek RiDATA +R DL 2.4x
Software: DVDA 2.0a (build 121), CopytoDVD 3.0.38

Whatever you use for a burner, it is probably going to be very, very important to have the most recent firmware you can find. My burner shipped with 2.16 and refused to recognize the RiDATA media. An upgrade to 2.17(which the US NEC site says is the latest) did not solve this. A visit to the Ritek web site showed a table that claimed I needed 2.18. A little searching with google found me an official NEC 2.18 firmware copy on the NEC site in Denmark - hurray!

The project was authored in DVDA - 4 of the latest episodes of Enterprise (sans commercials). Rendered as an elementary stream with the rest of the settings at default (because I want to also play with authoring in DVD Lab Pro). Besides the WYSIWYG in DVDA getting wierd on me when I added the 3rd movie (it started re-sizing everything), DVDA estimated the final project at 7.1GB - actual size (base 10) was 6.6GB - not too bad considering I had some animated thumbnails which almost always throws off a DVDA estimate.

The project was then prepared in DVDA (I just clicked on by DVDA's complaint about the size).

Invoked CopyToDVD (from VSO software) - fed it the VIDEO_TS.IFO file and it promptly informed me it was too big for a DVD5 (expected as my default drive is not DL capable). Changed the drive to be my new NEC and CopyToDVD promptly changed to DVD-9 at 2.4x.

The NEC drive was connected to the laptop via USB. One clue that I finally had the correct firmware was 1) CopyToDVD reported the correct maximum copy speed when the media was in the drive, and 2) It didn't error out when trying to burn.

Proceeded with the burn, and approx 40 minutes later, the media was ejected from the drive with no errors reported.

Put the newly burned media in my Toshiba DVD player - player did it's load thing and took me to the menu. I than ran thru each of the 4 episodes at 32x - all content was accessable. I could not find the layer break, but then at 32x I didn't really expect too - however, the player didn't seem to have any problem zooming along across the layer break at 32X. I did view at normal speed in a few areas where I thought the layer break might happen, but could not see it - which really means nothing, as I was most likely looking in the totally wrong place.

Later I plan on re-authoring this project in DVD Lab Pro and seeing if Pro communicates any of the pre-mastering info that it can generated to CopyToDVD.

--Scott

Comments

ScottW wrote on 12/8/2004, 3:20 PM
CopyToDVD set the layer switch for me automagically, I had no control over it - that's one of the reasons I want to see if DVD Lab Pro does things differently; Pro contains some "pre-mastering" options that give you a certain amount of control over the layer switch - what's not clear from the documentation is whether that information is communicated to CopyToDVD or not.
FrankieP wrote on 12/8/2004, 6:34 PM
Scott,
Thanks for sharing. Just wondering why you chose CopytoDVD to do your test. Do you think Nero6 would have the same results?
ScottW wrote on 12/8/2004, 8:23 PM
I chose CopyToDVD because DVD Lab Pro claimed it would burn DL DVD Video with CopyToDVD - I could never find anything on Nero's web site or documentation that said they could burn DL DVD Video - I do have nero, so I *might* try it - at $9 a burn though, it's expensive testing.
FrankieP wrote on 12/8/2004, 8:27 PM
Scott,
Hold on, I might try to do this tomorrow with Nero6. I'll post my results after. I already have a project prepared with DVDA2 which is 6 gigs in size.
FrankieP wrote on 12/9/2004, 4:23 PM
Okay... my test results!

The Project:

VHS transfer of the US version of the Luc Besson film, The Big Blue, captured

and edited in Vegas 5.0a (Build 134). Prepared in DVDA 2.0a (Build 121) with

total folder size is 5.4 gigs. The Movie runs approximately 2 hrs 02 mins.

Settings in Nero 6.6.0.3 - Default DVD-Video template, booktype settings

changed to DVD-ROM.

I used my newly acquired Sony DRU-710A DL Burner and a Verbatim DVD+R DL

media. Burned at 2.4x speed.

The burn took just a little over 30 minutes. Nero indicated no errors before

and after burn. Before the burn, Nero has a graphical representation below

of what I thought was gonna be the layer break indicated by the blue and

yellow bars [url]http://www.basementsessionsnyc.com/images/DL_TestBurn_01.jpg[\url]
.
As I proceeded, I noticed it switched and burned to the 2nd

layer at approximately 50% completion. [url]http://www.basementsessionsnyc.com/images/DL_TestBurn_02.jpg[\url]

So I guess Nero splits the file size

into 2 and creates the layer break without occupying the whole first layer of

the disc. So if my project file size is 5.4 gigs, then by the time it

finishes burning 2.2 gigs on the first layer, it then proceeds to burn the

rest of the 2.2 gigs to the 2nd layer. That's my theory anyway and will be

supported by the next test.
I tested the disc with the following set top DVD players:
Samsung DVD-M101
Apex ADV-3800
Panasonic DVD-RV32
Toshiba SD-5970
Toshiba SD-P1400 Portable DVD

The disc loaded and played well without a hitch on all the above DVD players.

I proceeded to search for the layer switch and true enough the break comes in

at approximately 1:01:33. The film is clocking in at 2:02:04, so indeed Nero

split the project in half. Now the bad news...
Everytime I let it play through the layer break/switch, the disc freezes for

about a second and jumps to 1:06:33 instead of continuing to 1:01:34.

Pressing the back button will take you to 1:01:34. So i tried to let it run

through the 2nd time and this time no freezing but still jumps ahead 5

minutes into the film. Succeeding tries was the same, no freezing but jumps

5 minutes forward even after unloading the disc from the tray. What amazes

me was this behavior happens on all the players except for the Toshiba

SD-5970 which I had bought three weeks ago. I guess theres a difference

between older set top players and the new ones.

To conclude, i'm happy that I Nero didn't burn a coaster and that the disc is

playable. I will do more testings in a couple of days to see if i'm right

about Nero splitting up the project file size evenly to decide where the

layer break/switch would be written.
ScottW wrote on 12/9/2004, 4:29 PM
Your observation about how much is burnt is correct - the rule is that both layers must contain the same amount of data, so you'll never see a fully burnt disk unless you have a full disk.