DL DVDs, thoughts from the trenches?

farss wrote on 11/21/2007, 5:40 AM
Just made my first DL DVD, making it with DVDA 4.5 was almost too simple and the disk plays perfectly.
My only concern is I've only tested it in a high end Sony STB player. I'm wondering about the dreaded player compatibility issue so I'd like to hear how others who've been brave enough to try these have faired.

The media I burnt to was Verbatim +R 2.4x 8.5GB, burnt at 2.4x, sure took a while to cook. Why I'm more concerned than usual is the DL media is not mainstream compared to single layer so I figure not much of it gets used for duplication. Is this because of cost alone or because it's not very compatible.

Should also say I'm finally happy with DVDA, 16:9 PAL menus work correctly, the menus look better too, text is clear and sharp with no twitter. The older versions of DVDA produced very soft menus.

Bob.

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 11/21/2007, 8:27 AM
Almost all of our training DVDs and much of our corporate work is delivered/replicated on DL.
Easiest way to manage it is to create the master file as DDP, burning a DVD 5 with Layer 0 and another DVD 5 as Layer 1. The replicator that we use merges these and creates the glass from those two layers.
Side note, our replicator is using DVD Architect for much of their work, they're very impressed with how it masters.
As far as compatibility, we recently did three runs of *duplicated* DVD9s at 250 units each run, all three different projects.
We only had 4 AFAIK that didn't play in whatever the clients had to use. This client screams really loud when things go south, so I'm fairly confident that the 4 we're aware of are the only 4 that had problems.

Cost of rep' DVD9 here in the states is barely more than DVD5, BTW.
Stuart Robinson wrote on 11/21/2007, 10:01 AM
I've made a lot of DVD-9 DL discs and once over the initial experimental phase, haven't had an reports of player incompatibility.

The book type is the main issue. Most older - and in fact some newer - players don't recognise the book type of DL and that's usually what stops the disc playing. The trick is to buy DVD+R discs and change the book type to DVD-ROM, then everything will play them. Although you'd think DVD-R would be more compatible, it's not, and you can't change the book type.

Then just stick to the general rules of disc burning - don't go overboard on the data rate and if you're feeling really conservative, don't use all the disc surface.
farss wrote on 11/21/2007, 12:19 PM
Thanks,
we're only duplicating these disks in towers. Only reason for going to DL is these concerts run over two hours and with so much fog, smoke, flashing lights and general mayhem I need a decent bitrate or things get ugly. Already thanks to previous advice from here using DVD+R.
So here's a question. How do I do a DL DVD and set the book type?

For single layer I usually prepare in DVDA and burn with Nero. I use Nero to burn because it gives me a verification pass. However I don't see how I can use the same process with DL, how does Nero know where to put the layer break like DVDA does. As far as I can see DVDA doesn't let me change the book type or have I missed something.

Bob.
Stuart Robinson wrote on 11/21/2007, 1:55 PM
I have Plextor drives and they can be set to automatically change the book type via Plextools. Ergo, I don't have to worry about doing it in software.

I do recall that changing the book type was not possible with all drives; there was a Lite-On utility for their drives (and the Sony OEM drives they make), perhaps yours too?
JJKizak wrote on 11/21/2007, 2:26 PM
Nero 8.1 is pretty much automatic when making DL DVD's. You can manually set the book type if you want. I ran one through and didn't have to do anything, Nero set the break itself and the default book tupe is dvd-rom.
JJK
rtbond wrote on 11/22/2007, 3:28 AM
>So here's a question. How do I do a DL DVD and set the book type?

Yes as mentioned above, whether a DVD +RW/R writer supports user controlled Book Type is a function of the drive's firmware. Some writers do and some writers do not. I have found setting the BookType to "DVD-ROM" a critical factor in increasing DVD +R/+R DL compatibility and therefore only purchase DVD +RW/R/DL burners with the ability to "change the compatibility bitsettings" (i.e., Book Type).

My BenQ writer has a software utility that allows you to change the default Book Type for each of the media types it supports. Other writers allow 3rd party programs like Nero to set the Book Type on a burn-by-burn basis.

To determine if your DVD writer has Book Type setting control you can try visting:
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/DriveComparisons/Home.aspx (select your model and then select the "DVD Recording Tests" or visit http://www.dvdplusrw.org/Overview.PC.asp?mid=14&sid=15

Rob Bond

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farss wrote on 11/22/2007, 3:57 AM
Thanks to everyone for all the advice.
I've now tried this D/L disk in another player. No compatibility problem however this somewhat older and cheaper player does have problems playing the first half of the disk which I assume is the bottom layer. That makes sense, the bottom layer of the disk has to be more difficult to read than the upper one and a weak / cheaper laser is more likely to have issues with a D/L disk than a pressed disk. Maybe the book type has something to do with this but I'm not certain. This same player still plays single layer DVDs to perfection.

So maybe in the end using a single DL disk instead of two single layer disks isn't worth the hassle and risks of getting more returns. It certainly is borderline cost wise. A DL disk is 3x the cost of a SL, you save a little on printing and the case are only a few cents different. We migh try one run of DLs just to see how many returns we get.

Bob.
Grazie wrote on 11/22/2007, 4:07 AM
Ooohhh... I really can't wait till we send out chips instead of mucking about with all this spinning nonsense. DVD + DVD - ROMs and covers and printing on discs and repro houses and masters .. ugghhh.. A 50 gb USB4 chip costing 20 cents? How far away? Think of the encryption options?

In fact, how about having the info IMBEDDED into the printed matter? OK, too far a leap of concept?

Regards

Grazie