Documentary: How many cams do you use, suggest?

ReneH wrote on 11/5/2004, 6:11 AM
I have been looking at getting the Sony PD 170 and using it to start taping a documentary, my question is, do you guys recommend 2 camera setups or do you get by with one camera? Just wondering what your experiences have been and wich would be the best option.

Also, i read reviews on the PD 170 and think that this would be the better camera in terms of image and audio quality. What do you guys think?

Comments

mcgeedo wrote on 11/5/2004, 8:03 AM
What is the subject of your documentary? Is it sit-down interviews only?
ReneH wrote on 11/5/2004, 9:03 AM
It is a mixture of interviews, photo pans, and newsreels added in. Also,I'm planning to do some location shooting taking place outside, done in an onsite-interview fashion. What do you suggest?

What I wanted to do is to purchase the ideal equipment that would make this happen smoothly. I will be looking into purchasing:

1. tripod
2. lighting kit
3. wireliess mic set
4. perhaps a shotgun mic?
5. looking heavily into lenses

Any suggestions on thse?
mcgeedo wrote on 11/5/2004, 9:34 AM
The interviews can be done with a single cam, no problem. Invest in a decent set of lights (like three soft boxes) and read up on interview lighting. The cam you have in mind will do a fine job on that; just make sure you have plenty of light.

Your location shoots might be done with a single cam. I don't know what you're going to be shooting so I can't say. If it is an event that will only happen once, then you might want two cams so you can have one set to a wide field (the so-called "B" roll). This will free you up to pan and zoom with the other cam, and you can cut the two together in post to make something nice.

Good luck,
-Don
PhilinCT wrote on 11/5/2004, 4:45 PM
Subject mater is the key.

Most docs I have wrked on only use one camera, unless it is a one time event,(concerts, etc).

I like small Cams for doc intvs, I still use my GL1 with great results, small profile. But think 2005 will see it replaced.

Great notetaking and file management is also your key to hapiness.
Phil
winrockpost wrote on 11/5/2004, 5:08 PM
watch a ken burns documentary ,see how many cams he uses.
TimTyler wrote on 11/5/2004, 6:44 PM
I'm in the middle of shooting a doc now. 75% sit down, head-n-shoulders interviews and the rest is b-roll of the subject matter.

Most of the interviews are lit with a single 750w softbox as the key, and a semi-translucent flexfill for the fill. Sometimes I'll aim a diffused 250w openface through the flexfill, opposite the key. I'll generally use a 300w or 600w openface light to light up something in the background.

The B-roll is almost all in a small theater and I've been supplimenting the room light with a 750w openface aimed into a big silver umbrella. It does a nice job of add a stop or two of light without being too sourcy.

Camera is a single DVX100a. At the start all the interviews were mic'd with a nice Tram lav, but I switched to a nice shotgun on a boom a few weeks ago. Lav's just don't sound as good as 'real' mics. Make sure the boom is aimed directly at the person talking's mouth, and get it as close as possible.

In all the years I've been shooting these have been the simplest lighting setups I've ever done, but it feels justified since this is a documentary. The interviews don't look bad at all, they just look simple and not over-lit.

Make sure to have at least 3 or 4 25' very-good quality extention cords (stingers) and a couple of 'ground-lifters' so you can plug your stuff into old wall sockets if necessary.

Buy decent quality lights that are easy to setup, take down, transport, and find lamps for. Buy spare lamps ahead of time. I recently found a series of lights made by Britek that are very inexpensive and a good value as far as I'm concerned.

Spend extra on a good tripod and fluid head so you can do smooth tilts and pans, especially during interviews. You won't want to be fumbling with tripod settings in the middle of a good interview.

Tim Tyler
http://cinematography.com/
riredale wrote on 11/5/2004, 6:55 PM
In the few documentaries I've done of the choirs over the past 3 years, I've used just one camera for most of the footage. For the actual performances, however, it really helps to have a second angle available just to avoid the monotony of a single continuous shot.

My most recent shoot this past summer was done with a VX2000. Gorgeous, colorful images.

I have a Velbon Stratus tripod with a PH-268 fluid head. I can't believe these tripods aren't more popular than they are--very nice movement, very stable, yet very inexpensive.
ReneH wrote on 11/6/2004, 12:29 PM
Thanks for all your feedback on my post, it really helps too recieve insight on your experiences. I intend to starting work on my first documentary, hopefully, within the next 2 months and I was seeking input on these items. Thanks again for sharing your viewpoints.
PhilinCT wrote on 11/6/2004, 3:51 PM
Nice tip re: Britek. I am looking for a light kit and the lowel stuff has always seemed way too expensive for what you get.

Phil
musman wrote on 11/6/2004, 9:06 PM
Audio wise the dvx100 is still thought of as better than 170. But, there's a modification for around $300 that aguy at the dv.com camera forum makes that will give either the pd170 or the pd150 significantlt better audio than even the dvx100. They say the pd170 has better low light than the dvx100, but I've been pretty impressed with the dvx100 so far in low light and would definitely like to have progressive scanning as an option.
farss wrote on 11/7/2004, 2:33 AM
Even shooting interviews two cameras can be mighty handy. Really depends on how the interview is being shot.
If it's a 'staged' interview then one camera is fine, you can reshoot some of the questions but from a different angle after the real interview is done, this trick is pulled all the time which is why you hear the odd complaint from the politicians, the question gets changed in the reshoot!
But if it's a real live interview where you're not in charge then two cameras, particularly if it's a long interview, can make the world of difference.
I think the 170 is a good choice, if all the stuff is being staged and you've got enough light and time then the DVX 100 is worthwhile.
Bob.
BrianStanding wrote on 11/7/2004, 6:12 AM
Just remember that you have to log, capture and look at all that footage. Documentaries typically have shooting ratios (raw footage to final edit) of 25:1 or greater. If you're shooting a 70-minute documentary feature, that's 30 hours of footage! If you shoot two cameras, that doubles the amount of stuff you have to look at. I have also found that double-shooting a "talking head" interview invariably results in lighting problems for one of the shots.

Whatever you do, make sure you shoot lots of cutaways (books on the shelves, background close-ups, etc.).
ReneH wrote on 11/7/2004, 7:30 AM
All very important tips! Now that I know about the 170's audio limitation, I might opt for the dvx100. Thanks for the pointers. I'm listening with all years....
L25 wrote on 11/7/2004, 7:53 AM
here is a link for the audio mod.

http://www.gregjwinter.com/modification2.htm

I am waiting for something like this to come out.

http://www.edirol.com/press/html/2004/092704_r1_pr.html




ReneH wrote on 11/7/2004, 5:46 PM
Thiis one is for DVX 100a users doing documentaries:

Do you guys use a matte box? If so what filters do you wind up using moreso than others?

I found several websites that market matte boxes, spcifically:

http://www.mediumblend.com/abelstore/customer/product.php?productid=411&cat=51&page=1


http://www.centuryoptics.com/products/prodv/dvx100/dvx100.htm

Would they be something you'd use when doing a documentary? Sorry for the questions, I think this would be the best audience to ask.
rextilleon wrote on 11/7/2004, 5:58 PM
The P-170 audio is fine for interviews--I have been using its younger brother the 150 for years with no problems. In a run and gun situation--particularly when you tapping "verite" the PD-170's low light performance can be essential.
L25 wrote on 11/7/2004, 10:34 PM
Rex is right,

The low light capabilities of the PD150 (in my case) are outstanding. For what I do, I have never had a problem with the audio on my PD150. I was well aware of the issue when I bought it. For critical audio I have used another source.